PCGP Episode 72
This week: An established sociologist claims violent games don’t cause youth violence (what?!); An amazing WoW themed birthday cake; Summer Bioshock release date; C&C 3 compared to Supreme Commander; MTV makes an MMO; Halflife.com domain available for $1M; q&a and playlists!
March 1st, 2007 at 10:54 pm
Yay 1st! anyway thanks for the show guys and keep up the work!
March 1st, 2007 at 11:20 pm
second. downloading
btw, in the podcast vacuum, i gave the GFW podcast a spin. and regretted it. lets just say pcgp is classier, and it even has an opening theme!
March 1st, 2007 at 11:25 pm
w007! third so people might read this one… anyway, listening now keep up the great work.
March 1st, 2007 at 11:41 pm
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT NICE!
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 am
You totally got the birthday cake thing from Ars didn’t you? Didn’t you!!??!? Jeremy clue everyone in to the horde cake on the Openforum, since we know ?
Anyway, FOR THE HORDE!
Diabolical
aka
Diabolical on Ars.
/goes and looks at the link.
Yep.
I see it was on Digg, and some other sites as well.
Yep. And yes, the woodgrain is awesome!
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:16 am
Braains. I’ve been playing the crap out of supcom and have a funny story about it. On the last Aeon mission I had defeated the UEF and the Cybrans and all that was left was the Eeeeevil Aeon and they had this huge battle fleet that I was completely unprepaired for. So they were sitting off sore to my base and blowing up all my dudes. They had blow up three of my four Ultra uber long range massive huge guns of Death (or UULRMHGOD, which sounds a bit like what people say when they are fired at by them) and the last one fired a single shot before the enemy destroyed them too. I watched the shell fly the sky.
it flew
and flew
and flew
and flew
and slammed into the head of the enemy commander. He exploded and I won the mission!
WOOOOO!
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:25 am
Diabolical - all the stories we discus are linked to the source in the story links sidebar on the front page.
Braindead - I’ve had that same thing happen. Of course, I’ve had the opposite happen, too. For example, I was playing one 2v2 game where the enemy team turtled up and built a T3 arty. They started shelling my base, specifically aiming at my commander. My teammate and I pushed through their defenses and won, and when I looked back at my commander the ground all around him in every direction was pockmarked with impact craters. If he’d been a few steps in any direction, I’d have lost the game.
March 2nd, 2007 at 1:07 am
I don’t know why Gary is defending MS for delaying Halo 2 for PC. I mean come on, who hasn’t played Halo 2, even if you don’t have an Xbox? It’s an old game, even for us PC gamers. It’s ridiculous that MS draws out Halo and Gears of War for PC, and C&C 3 comes out right away for 360. That isn’t supporting your new OS. The only game that people are all excited about is Crysis, and games like Alan Wake, BioShock, Assassin’s Creed, UT3, Shadowrun, and more are all at least coming out for both 360 and PC. I hate waiting for over a year to play great games, and Vista isn’t helping at all.
March 2nd, 2007 at 1:37 am
brutalus7: One, C&C 3 isn’t a Microsoft product, it belongs to EA. Two, C&C 3 is going to be delayed until summer at least on the Xbox 360 while those of us playing on it’s true home, the PC will be able to get it at the end of this month….there will be much rejoicing.
I wish that C&C 3 was going to be a Live Anywhere title, it would be worth upgrading to Vista just to punish all the people that desecrate C&C by playing it on a 360, and yes I know that there have been C&C games on other consoles, it’s still not right.
March 2nd, 2007 at 9:43 am
Before I start listing (still downloading), I’ll quietly point out that the filename of this weeks episode still has 71 in it…
NeoThermic
March 2nd, 2007 at 1:25 pm
What’s really funny is how they tested the “aggression”. It’s seems it involved pushing a button.
March 2nd, 2007 at 3:14 pm
For the Horde.
March 2nd, 2007 at 3:36 pm
NeoThermic: Ahha, you are right. Feel free to rename it.
March 2nd, 2007 at 4:37 pm
I can’t seem to get around Gary’s defense of Microsoft launching Halo 2 on the PC 3 years after the original release on xbox. Does microsoft actually think anyone is going to rush out and buy Halo 2 just cause it came out PC for the first time? Gamers arnt that stupid. Anyone who wanted to play Halo 2 has already done so. The amount of gamers that have waited exclusively for the PC version can’t be high. Its ridiculous. Ludicrous. Shame on Microsoft.
btw much better episode than last week (specially 2nd half.: tired of all the legal talk about violence:9)
March 2nd, 2007 at 5:35 pm
North Koreans don’t have computers chuck lol
March 2nd, 2007 at 5:59 pm
I would like to tip you guys off on a website to talk about. It’s nothing new, and I don’t know if you guys have ever talked about it.
http://www.thesimexchange.com/index.php
It’s virtual stocks, but you trade game copies.
March 2nd, 2007 at 6:00 pm
Gary, the fact that half the students in the survey you discussed were from BYU (and therefore likely Mormon) shouldn’t prejudice them in any way against the Bible–it is scripture in the LDS religion as well.
March 2nd, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Anyone who really wanted to play Halo 2 would have played it on the Xbox.
March 2nd, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Umm if I remember correctly, wasn’t Quake 4 was OpenGL only?
There’s no excuse for Vista not to support OpenGL, other than that Bill Gates hates every gamer personally.
So yeah… while I was writing this Will Smith IMed Dan (Yo homes to bel-air) that Quake 4 works fine… yeah.
Also, MAN THAT WOULD BE COOL IF HALO2 WAS THE MINESWEEPER OF VISTA! There’d be like 100000 people online all the time.
March 2nd, 2007 at 6:52 pm
What is with all of your negativity toward the Bible? For a moment, it sounds like you’re quoting straight from a Richard Dawkins book when you label Christianity as one of the “more unpleasant” religions of the world. I am sorry, but your comments really offended me in your podcast, and I feel inclined to stand up against this unjustifiable attack on Christianity as a catalyst for violent behavior. (Stereotypical angry Bible-thumper, right here.
)
The Bible is a book filled with historical information, just like any history textbook in school. The accounts of war in the Bible are no different than the the educational content children read in school — just like any textbook, the Old Testament of the Bible records past events in the history of the Jews. Where do you get off calling the Bible an inherently ‘violent’ piece of literature, any more than a textbook on the subject of Roman or Persian history? Both texts would recount bloody wars, but the accounts given in the OT could hardly be considered ‘graphic’ in their detail, by any means. (Don’t take my word for it — check out the Book of Joshua yourself.) And where do these Brigham-Young hacks-with-an-agenda get the notion that reading the Old Testament incites violent feelings in youth? Every treatment of violence in both the OT and NT is extremely objective, and remarkably free from sensationalism. There’s no language like “you are headed for a deed that God loves”, and there is nothing that could even be remotely considered as some Christian version of a call to ‘jihad’; try as you might, you just can’t just lump Christian religion together with religions like Islam here — they’re totally different philosophies. The notion that the Old Testament could actually incite young readers to violence…is preposterous nonsense.
The distasteful remarks you made in your podcast towards Christianity just underscore the general rampant prejudice against and persecution of Christian religious expression in this world. I find it strange that whenever a Muslim extremist group decides to blow up the ocean or something, people instantly turn their anger toward Christians, when there is no doctrine of militant religious expression in Christianity. (Someone will mention the Crusades — but that wasn’t Christianity. That’s what you get when you mix the holy philosophy of God with worldly philosophy like the possession of land, etc. — you end up with something unholy.)
My point is simply this — you’re obviously not qualified to examine these issues, so don’t discuss them on your podcast until you’re ready to look at these issues from a more objective standpoint, instead of overlaying your pedestrian prejudices on top of the discussion.
March 2nd, 2007 at 7:39 pm
TLDR Dude. Go Dan
March 2nd, 2007 at 7:51 pm
Wildstrike, although some of us are Richard Dawkins disciples, I think you missed the point. We agree with you in that, “the notion that the Old Testament could actually incite young readers to violence…is preposterous nonsense.” Our point, however poorly communicated, was that it’s this same illlogic that leads people to conclude video games incite real world violence.
March 2nd, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Apparently you missed the part where we called the idea that the bible would incite violence among youth just as ridiculous as the idea that games cause school shootings. Which is to say, very. And Gary’s statement was not that Christianity was one of the more “unpleasant religions” in the world, he said the bible was one of the more unpleasant pieces of literature in terms of the acts that take place therein. Saying that there are descriptions of violent acts in the bible is 100 percent accurate, as all of the events he described do take place in Christian mythology. He did not say they were graphically described. However, the Judeo-Christian god does personally engage in acts of violence and mass murder, which can certainly be interpreted as an endorsement of violence against certain groups of people, such as the Sodomites. It’s not how you read it (I hope) but it’s one interpretation that could, in theory, incite violence. Again, we said that the whole idea was stupid, and that this just went to further invalidate the claim that games cause violence.
Oh, and how is the bible different from a history textbook? A history textbook doesn’t claim that an infallible being that is the very definition of morality told the Romans or Persians to do what they did. At least, in a GOOD textbook.
In any case, the claim that Christians are persecuted in this country is borderline paranoid. I’m pretty sure that in order for a group to be persecuted, one of the requirements is to not have about 99% control over the government. Just because not everybody loves Christianity doesn’t mean you’re being oppressed.
March 2nd, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Erm, when did this become a religious forum? I thought we are just discussing PC gaming in here. Grow shorter toes and stick to the topic plz.
March 2nd, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Sorry for the double post, but I can’t help myself. DJ is so right haha:
“I’m pretty sure that in order for a group to be persecuted, one of the requirements is to not have about 99% control over the government.”
March 2nd, 2007 at 9:12 pm
I’m a bit curious as to who actually in the podcast crew has read the bible. All the parts they tried to describe included.
March 2nd, 2007 at 10:30 pm
After listening to the podcast i noticed, or what seemed to be, a disrespectful tone when referring to the bible as well. As Mac said it would be intrestresting to know what of the bible you have read in yourself to make the claim you feel it is a voilent book. Yes there are acts of violence in the book much like in a history book from school, because that is what a good part of the OT is. That was what wildstrike was reffering to i believe. As for the act of persecution it is there. The Left wing media, IMO, is constantly taking shots at christian beliefs and events. I found it rather weird that you guys constantly get frustrated with how the media treats video games, but tried to compare it as if it were the bible it would havebeen treated differently. You can understand how we feel as you yourself feel persecuted because of your gaming habits. Persecutioin happens on a personal level: Its a state of being harassed and oppressed for what you believe or do. It did come across a bit hypocritical that you are tired of being belitted as a gamer (which goes for me) yet your tone and comments on the bible seemed to be belittling toward christians.
March 2nd, 2007 at 10:58 pm
Relgion causes war. Money causes war. I haven’t seen video games cause war. :p
March 3rd, 2007 at 12:43 am
I have nothing to do with PC Gamer, but I’d like to say that I have read the Bible and there are unquestionably many atrocious acts of violence, oppression and sex. Saying that is not a commentary on the worth or value of the Bible, it is merely a statement of fact. How anyone uses or interprets the Bible is their own personal choice, and I believe it’s best when it remains a personal one. No one has attacked anyone else’s personal beliefs here, so I can’t see how people are feeling disrespected or persecuted.
The Bible is an excellent comparison to make to videogames in this case precisely because of the extra meaning and popular conceptions each of them hold. People who wish to stir alarm or cause controversy will often attach their own agenda onto these popular subjects. The Bible can be abused by those wishing to attack a faith, and videogames can be abused by those wishing to attack the younger generations or the social groups that enjoy them.
March 3rd, 2007 at 12:49 am
Lots of video games cause wars. Everything was pretty great in the C&C universe until EA made C&C 3, now GDI and Nod are back fighting each other, look at Doom 3, everything had been peaceful on Mars since after Doom II was released, then out of nowhere a lone Marine is fighting a one man war against the forces of hell again, if it hadn’t for id that never would have happened. Video games have to started wars so don’t try to make them sound better than religion, money or oil. [/end sarcasm]
March 3rd, 2007 at 1:38 am
The difference in my opinion between video games and the bible or pretty much any entertainment and the bible is most entertainment is just that.. entertainment. But the Bible for some is a way of life which they take very seriously. Some people are unable to tell the difference though and that may cause them to view entertainment as a threat to them and their beliefs. Case in point.. the way some religious groups reacted to Harry Potter. Not trying to disparage anyone just stating an observation of mine.
March 3rd, 2007 at 6:42 am
Hey, nice cast. But I you didn’t answer my question…will dual SLI cards give me higher def porn?
March 3rd, 2007 at 7:39 am
Any link of the article mentioned in the podcast?
March 3rd, 2007 at 9:10 am
^^ wow, a fervently religious person completely missing the point and becoming defensive and tiringly self-righteous…. who’da thunk it?
I personally am quite offended that you guys fail to show the proper respect when mentioning Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
March 3rd, 2007 at 10:27 am
OFFTOPIC:
Dan, you were always a bit sceptic about controlling games with your mind alone, but it’s coming closer and closer to reality. In fact, Emotiv is going to demo a prototype next week in the Game Developers Conference 2007 in San Fransisco.
For more information, take a look at the topic I posted in the PCGP forums:
http://www.pcgamerpodcast.com/?page_id=86&xdforum_action=viewthread&xf_id=4&xt_id=34&pstart=0
I’m not sure if you’re allowed to go have a look, but it sure would be cool to hear if the thing actually works
March 3rd, 2007 at 12:54 pm
When anyone tries to demonize a certain source as the “cause” of a given bad thing, it only reveals their inherent bias. The fact is, we are largely products of our environment–always have been. Books (of ALL kinds), TV, movies, radio, AND video games are only methods of communication. All of them influence our actions. If you disagree, how do you explain the millions of dollars spent on 30-second Super Bowl commercials? Why would someone spend millions to “not influence” us? And those companies are putting commercials in our gaming magazines and now (which most of us hate) even into some video games (BF 2142, anyone?). I don’t care what any expert says–follow the money and you will find the truth.
And for those of you (not you, PC Gamer, I thought you were genuinely trying to be fair in your podcast) who want to demonize religious texts, let me remind you that Darwin, Lenin, and Marx are not exempt from being used to justify violence. (Red China, USSR, and Hitler’s Social Darwinism come to mind–tens of thousands murdered in all three due to philosophies sourced in atheism.)
For reference, I’m not religious.
Adman
March 3rd, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Finally no Max PC
March 3rd, 2007 at 4:25 pm
I wish this discussion of what has negative influences on society and people and especially impressionable young people would get a bit deeper, and by that I mean deeper thinking.
I’m quite tired of Dans statements that he played violent games and didn’t slaughter anyone so obviously things can’t influence society or people.
As i stated before, most would agree that culture can uplift, inspire and encourage people to be better people. Then why can’t it also be have the opposite effect?
Society and generational human conduct is a thing that is built up or stripped away gradually, layer by imperceptable layer. Like the small hand on a clock you hardly notice it’s alteration. Like your diet, if it’s degraded and the food you eat is increasingly junky you don’t suddenly put on 300lbs and drop dead. Your health just degades slowly, sometimes over generations.
I don’t mind if you argue well that even then, culture, of which games are a significant part these days, can not negativly affect people but at least drop the simplistic assertions that ‘A’ this week doesn’t lead to ‘B’ next week so obviously there is nothing to be concerned about.
Sure the parents groups and politicians are just as guilty of sound bite simplicity but you don’t have to take their lead.
Yes i agree with that sociologist lady. Games don’t make teens march out and shoot people. That’s a silly discussion. The question of whether access to extremly visceral and interactive media of a violent and sexual nature by children who are not yet matured and ready to process such content can have a gradual degredation and corrosion of their sensitivity to the suffereing of those around them, respect for the dignity of those around them and their own general self control in thoughts, emotions and acts . . is the big question.
I put it to you that over many years and even a generation or two this negative effect is real. I’ts not the existence of a violent game. Some violent game have a removed sense from reality such as HL2. Others though either are basically snuff games and others have more of a stylistic effect on the mentality such as encouraging misoginy and a gang violence mentality.It’s the violent games of this nature that is easil accesed by a teens that can possible degrade certain impressionable types mind.
The question really is not whose responsibility it is. It’s more ‘is the effect real or imagined’.
March 3rd, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Someone above made the comment about “why is this being turned into a religious debate”, or something along those lines. Why not? People have passions in life. That’s why all of us who play video games are so quick to defend them against the Clinton’s and the Blagojevich’s of the world. That’s why nearly every episode of the PCG podcast has commented to some degree on the state of video game legislation. So why not bring to light a religious topic along the very same lines. I’ve been reading PCG for over three years now and have enjoyed every single issue I’ve received. Front to back, every article. It’s GOOD information. Solid. I base my game purchases off the articles I read in this magazine. So as a Christian gamer, it’s a bit disheartening to hear some of the comments made on this podcast. I think one of the major topics at hand, to me at least, is the hypocrisy in views on persecution, that is, “to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict”. If PCG took a poll of, for instance, every WoW player who read their magazine and asked them if they’ve had to defend at some point their desire to play WoW, the answer would almost certainly be yes for all polled. We, as gamers, recieve persecution across the board because many of us are viewed as “socially inept”, “nerdy”, “geeky”, so on and so forth. I’ve defended my stance on video games, especially MMO’s on many occasions…just as I have defended my faith in Jesus Christ many, many times. Am I a Bible-Thumper? I believe what’s in there as it’s written. Do I put myself high on some “holier-than-thou” pedestal? Absolutely not. I’m no better than the man who stands next to me on the bus. So to comment that “wow, a fervently religious person completely missing the point and becoming defensive and tiringly self-righteous…. who’da thunk it?” is ludicrous. YOU PLAY VIDEO GAMES. You argue over paladins-vs-warriors as tanks. You complain about release dates and people who hack Valve’s source code. You go into a server, own a couple people, and claim your ZOMGSO1337!! That may not be “self-righteous”, but its close. I’m not self-righteous. I’m entitled to nothing in this world. I’m a Christian. I’m NOT a televangelist. I won’t shove my beliefs down your throat. But you’ll be sure I’ll defend them just as quickly as you or I would defend the ability of Paladins to tank Kharazan. So I would challenge everyone to come off their “I’m a free thinker and above belief and God” pedestal to see where we stand.
I do apologize for getting slightly off topic. My intentions were to comment on how I was disheartened that the PCG podcast staff would comment in every episode on how games are so openly discriminated against, and yet make such a mocking comment as “Imagine if he was reading the Bible while he died…He would have been called up to Heaven for his devoutness”. You’re kidding right?
I like you guys. You’re educated. Every time I’ve read a review in your magazine I think “they really know their stuff”. But its comments like these that continue to fire up beliefs of such strongly biased media. To many, Fox News and Rush Limbaugh are the proponents of the ultra-conservative, right wing media. Many take offense to the way they work their platform. So why then, in a piece of media that is heard by thousands, take such a stance as to alienate a potentially large demographic, the Christian Gamer? The gamer I might add, who is arguably persecuted more for having to defend his/her beliefs in their servers every day from the “blah blah you are a Christian and shoot people blah blah” nonsense.
Bottom line. I agree with PCG’s stance on video game violence. Some people will be genetically more likely to partake in violent behavior. But to say that any form of media is the primary source of this behavior is ridiculous. That’s the same as to say that pornography inspires “sexual deviants” to whatever degree. DUH! It’s the parents, friends, and community’s responsibility to note this behavior and curb it. Of course school shootings, rape, etc, etc, etc are going to happen when parents turn themselves off instead of the computer or tv. Clinton’s campaign against video games is a cop-out. Instead of passing out manuals on video game ratings, pass out manuals on how to get involved with your children. Be a proponent of family activities and, if needed, counseling. Those will solve the problems. Not removing video games. Not alienating anyone. Not mocking your fellow man, woman, or gamer for their personal beliefs.
And to the last poster, Poita I believe, the effect of violent media is neither “real or imagined”, it’s perpetuated from a lack of personal interaction with those who are more likely to participate in violent or sexually deviant behavior.
March 3rd, 2007 at 7:47 pm
Again, we said nothing bad about Christians or the bible. We called the idea that the bible incites violence absurd. And yes, the comment about a Christian being called up to heaven if they died in an earthquake reading the bible was most certainly a joke.
…and “persecuted” does not mean “made fun of.”
March 3rd, 2007 at 8:22 pm
I thank you Dan for your reply. It would be easy for an editor of an internationally recognized PC Gaming magazine to throw off the discussion of someone replying on a message board about a podcast.
I do realize that the comment made was a joke. I would be lying to say that I myself don’t make irreverent references from time to time. In looking at it from the perspective of a Christian gamer…we’re on the same side of the issue of censorship of video games, and I was just surprised to hear, what *I thought*, was a negative undertone about Christianity.
And yes, the term persecuted became a bit sensationalized. But one can also make the argument there can be varying degrees of persecution.
No less, I love what PCGM has done and is doing for the PC Gaming community. PC gaming isn’t dead and you guys and gals are doing a fine job of showing Americans that we’re still around and that we’ve got a voice in the realm of censorship.
March 3rd, 2007 at 10:08 pm
OpenGL is supported in Vista in two ways. There is a default OpenGL support provided out of the box makes all the OpenGL calls go through Direct3D. This provides basic OpenGL 1.1 support which allows you to run old games like Quake 3, Half-Life and such. And the other way is to use an OpenGL ICD (installable client driver) provided by your video card manufacturer, this is the same way it was in Windows XP. So there is nothing to worry about OpenGL in Vista.
BTW, all the hardware accelerated engines from id Software use OpenGL. That’s from GLQuake to Doom 3/Quake 4.
March 4th, 2007 at 12:35 am
List of topics to avoid in future PC Gamer podcasts:
- porn
- the bible
March 4th, 2007 at 1:23 am
alot of people need to chill when they listen to these podcasts, and we are very lucky to have them, for free, in the first place.
March 4th, 2007 at 10:15 am
“…and “persecuted” does not mean “made fun of.””
Persecuted does mean to be harassed so i don’t get where you miss this. It doesn’t have to be the government preforming violent acts on someone because of their beliefs, it can be as little as a group of people shunning you or turning you away, for no more than the activities you do daily.
As for the people need to chill comment, just because i get this great podcast for free, doesn’t mean i don’t have the right to rant at what they are ranting at. I am not going to stand here and watch something i care for deeply get trashed without voicing my opinion. PCGP claims they weren’t not trying to bash Christians, so i will take there word for it, even though it didn’t come across that way.
I love what you guys do and will keep listening to your podcast. IDK maybe i am still bitter about dropping 50 bucks for JUST CAUSE eeeeeeerrr Just Awful after seeing it got a 91 percent. No probably not, but i had to throw that in there. Anyways aside form this podcast keep up the good work on reviews,and future podcasts. You guys are very good at what you do, and are hands down my favorite podcast to listen to weekly.
paladins can tank.
March 4th, 2007 at 11:01 am
I personally write off any person who claims to believe in a biblical god as delusional, and what’s worse, falsely humble. That’s right, it’s more hubristic to believe in god than it is to accept that we are mere matter and a happy bag of chemical accidents.
March 4th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Gosh, you guys like fighting. I bet it’s the fault of video games.
March 4th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Scientists of every kind will freely admit that they know very little. They can only account for 5% of the actual substance of this universe let alone a possilbe other one. The other 95% ther er . . just don’t know what it is.
As for Gravity, electricity, magnetism and nuclear forces er . . . . ditto. They don’t know what they are either. They know what conditions bring them about of course but they don’t actually know what they are. They don’t even know if light is a wave or a particle. The list of fundamental things about even the physical world that the best minds in humanity don’t know much about is huge. Shall i go on? They don’t know how biological life started. Where humans came from man the list goes on and on.
Scientists fill in these holes in knowledge with something called ‘hypothesis’ or ‘theories’. They don’t ‘believe’ them to be fact but in the absense of a better idea they go with them until something better comes along and trumps them. Geez, they even develop other theories based on these unproven theories being correct and even others on those.
So basically scientists develop theories, sometimes ones that are impossible to test, then they go on in the hope that they are correct. Sounds no more or less fluffy than a person having faith that God exists to me.
Also scientists have a strong theory with a large following that alternate universes exist, maybe millions or even an infinte number. Christians believe in a place called Heaven or Hell or generically called ‘the spirit world’. Why is it that scientists with no proof can suggest an alternate universe co existing in the same space as ourse much as thousands of radio waves can exist in the same room and get away with it and if a Christian suggests that even one universe other than this one exists then he’s crazy?
beepee, considering that the greatests scientists we have admit to knowing only a tiny percentage of the properties of reality and you probably not even being a scientist so knowing even less then doyou realise how rediculous and juvinile you sound when you declare anyone who believes in an after life and a creator to be delusional. The greatest delusion is the beliefe that we know everything and understand life and the universe. We don’t, we have grasped a tiny portion of it so far and just as many new generations of thinkers and discoverers of every kind are ridiculed by those who thought they knew everything then so should we beware of anyone who thinks he knows everything and therefore declares that anyone with an unusual theory is delusional. Life and existence it’s self is gloriously unusual so whatever the facts are about everything scientific and spiritual that we haven’t discovered yet you can probably bet one thing for sure and that’s that they are likely to be unusual and the kinds of things that will get the first discoverers some ridicule from people like you.
March 4th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Poita covered pretty much just about everything I was going to say. But here’s a thought…
What would you think of someone who told you this? Computers are made from throwing circuit boards, capacitors, memory, processors, hard drives, a soldering gun, solder, an operating system cd, a bios chip, so on and so forth into a box, shaken up, and somehow under “the perfect” conditions, managed to shape itself together into a fully functioning computer. You would say I’m “delusional” and that obviously SOMEONE in a factory put it together. Need I say more?
And here’s a little bit of physics…it’s in depth, so stick with it…
The laws of physics must have values very close to those observed or the universe does not work “well enough” to support life. What happens when we vary the constants? The strong nuclear force (which holds atoms together) has a value such that when the two hydrogen atoms fuse, 0.7% of the mass is converted into energy. If the value were 0.6% then a proton could not bond to a neutron, and the universe would consist only of hydrogen. If the value were 0.8%, then fusion would happen so readily that no hydrogen could have survived from the “Big Bang”. Other constants must be fine tuned to an even more stringent degree. The cosmic microwave background varies by one part in 100,000. If this factor were slightly smaller, the universe would exist only as a collection of diffuse gas, since no stars or galaxies could ever form. If this factor were slightly larger, the universe would consist solely of large black holes. Likewise, the ratio of electrons to protons cannot vary by more than 1 part in 10^37 or else electromagnetic interactions would prevent chemical reactions. In addition, if the ratio of the electromagnetic force constant to the gravitational constant were greater by more than 1 part in 10^40, then electromagnetism would dominate gravity, preventing the formation of stars and galaxies. If the expansion rate of universe were 1 part in 10^55 less than what it is, then the universe would have already collapsed. The most recently discovered physical law, the cosmological constant or dark energy, is the closest to zero of all the physical constants. In fact, a change of only 1 part in 10^120 would completely negate the effect.
March 4th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Being made fun of is a degree of persecution in the same way that being poked in the eye is a degree of a holocaust. You aren’t even being booted from servers, for crying out loud, you’ve just had a few people make some jokes at your expense. Your rights have not been infringed, and your ability to play games has not been impaired. The degree to which you are “persecuted” is so insignificant that to use that word to describe it is an insult to anyone who actually IS persecuted. It’s like going up to a black person and saying you know what it’s like to be a slave because you once had to work a double shift at Best Buy without overtime pay.
I have no idea how we managed to make the jump all the way to an argument about creationism, so I’ll just say that just because we haven’t figured everything out yet doesn’t mean an all-powerful intelligent being did it - to put things in perspective, that’s what people used to say about why it rains. And if an all-powerful being did create everything, where did he come from? Which is more likely: life as we know it assembling itself from basic chemical components or that an infinitely powerful, infinitely complex being sprung into existence through magic?
In any case, we just have to wait until Spore comes out to get the answer for sure… unless you believe that Will Wright is a false prophet, and that Peter Molyneux is the real messiah.
March 4th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
Why do you guys care so much, all they were saying was that blaming the bible for violence makes as much sense as blaming video games. Everytime somebody makes any negative association with the bible or jesus, you guys come out and say how your being mocked and how everybody is against you.
March 4th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
I heart Jeremy Williams. The show is so much better when he is on.
Adventure games: They have seem to come back a bit recently. Sam n Max has been good (and I think episode 4 was great and I will hold it up to any of the classice Lucas Arts adventure games), Myst Uru, and Runaway 2. Of Runaway 2 I’ve only played the demo (have the full game on preorder) and its a lot of fun. Much better than the original Runaway.
March 4th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Note: the filename is still incorrect (pcgp_071_ -> pcgp_072_).
March 4th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
I miss the Kings Quest games the most but somehow I also don’t see them being able to revive the series and keep it the same as it was back in the day, just look at what happened when someone else tried to make a Leisure Suit Larry game.
March 4th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
I choose to believe there is more to this life than the crappy world we live in. I was originally posting to state i felt your comments were offensive to me and my beliefs. It would be hard for you dan to see where i am coming from since you are not on the receiving end of it. Its kinda funny how you called that Canadian news paper and got mad at them, just for putting negative news stories of video games in their paper, but we are completely over- reacting because you made negative jokes and remarks about the bible and we did the same thing to you as you did to the Canadian newspaper. I like how chuck warned you to not go there but you did. I personally feel you did because you honestly don’t like Christians, and felt hey if i put this out there it just makes them look bad and us look good. It didn’t matter if you believed it or not. Its drive by media tactics. You said yourself in the podcast you feel its better for people to play video games rather than read the bible because they could get there anger out that way. That, in my opinion is an ridiculous comment to make. So tell me why is it wrong for me to point out that your story was out of line, but its ok for you to the same thing when your on the other end.
side note: no one brought up creationism until beepee thought he would add more to the topic by throwing a low blow comment saying
“I personally write off any person who claims to believe in a biblical god as delusional, and what’s worse, falsely humble. That’s right, it’s more hubristic to believe in god than it is to accept that we are mere matter and a happy bag of chemical accidents.”
So if your going to challenge us we are going to defend it.
It makes for sense to me, to believe there is a God that created life and the universe we live in, then to believe they the alternative. Guthrie’s computer analogy pretty much summed it up for me. As for where did God come from…..
We can only partially comprehend the notion of God’s existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: “without beginning or end”; “eternal”; “infinite”, etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: ” . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God” (Psalm 90:2). And, “Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting” (Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn’t. He always was.
To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people’s lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is “beyond the chart.” He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been.
Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.
Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end — and/or no beginning. Since God has no beginning or end, He has no beginning. This is because He is outside of time.
March 4th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
I would invite anyone, especially Dan if you have the time, who is interested in continuing the debate here to check out some of the information I’ve posted on my site. I really would love to talk to anyone about it, if nothing less to speak with them about their opinions. There’s a lengthy speech on there from a very well educated man that I think anyone who takes the time to read through it can appreciate. There’s some information at the bottom of it as well if you’d like to contact me.
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~jbguthri/content/evolution.html
March 4th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
“I personally feel you did because you honestly don’t like Christians, and felt hey if i put this out there it just makes them look bad and us look good.”
Are you actually retarded. He made bible jokes. OMG HE HATES ALL CHRISTIANS. Thats like saying somebody hates all blacks for making a black joke.
There is a difference between making jokes about the bible and blaming a violent car crash on video games.
March 4th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Oh for… I don’t have any problem with Christians (until they start preaching at me or legislating their version of morality, that is). Was it not totally obvious that I was making fun of people who think that kids should be reading the bible instead of playing violent games? Can I please make fun of them?
I said absolutely nothing derogatory about Christians in general, and neither did Gary. All we said was that the bible contains references to violent and sexual acts, which it does. What exactly was so “negative” about it? I just don’t understand. I think you should go back and listen to that segment again - if you listen to it without assuming that we’re out to get you, there’s really nothing offensive at all there. And if it still offends you, well I’m sorry, but there’s very little I can do to make it better.
guthrie634 - I’ll see if I have the time… but it appears you’re written a novel.
March 4th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
Dan if you say that you weren’t attending to bash the bible i will take your word for it. I posted here in the first place just to say how the podcast came across to me, and imediately i was jumped by people who said i was over reacting. That made me more upset. I feel as i have the right to say when something offends me and when something doesn’t. No one else can tell me what i am supposed to be affend by and what i am not. If you say you weren’t trying to start anything then i will let it go as that. Everything was went completely off topic when other people decieded to add there two cents on why i was wrong, and anyone else who felt the same way as i did, for say something in the first place. I think you guys have a great podcast. I really do, and i don’t want you to think i am going to let something like this cause me to cancel my subscription with pc gamer because i am not like that.
Oh and yes i am looking for to spore, i think its going to be completely different then any game we have seen to date.
March 4th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
Spore will be amazing.
Any word on a final release date??
March 4th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Dan S,
I don’t think that this discussion grew into an all-out flame war because of what you or Gary said in your podcast — I think your remarks only tripped the trigger on an issue that’s already full to bursting with social tension. Rather, I think that what’s fueling this thing is the comments being made periodically by “beepee” that are designed to throw more gas onto the flames. (To him I’d say, what makes you so sure it’s Christians that are delusional, and not atheists’ minds who are malfunctioning or misled by the philosophy of naturalism? What’s your frame of reference for a properly working mind?)
The lesson I hope we’ve all learned here is that it’s not a good idea to stir the ‘religion’ pot on your podcast, since there are so many different views and not one that everyone agrees upon as the ‘correct’ one. Christians in this country (I’m one) have a serious chip on our shoulder, because of the constant putdowns from atheists claiming to hold the intellectual high ground (much like we as Christians claim to hold the moral high ground). Christians today are fairly frustrated, I think, because the Church in America doesn’t seem to make education in theology and apologetics a high priority, so when those of us who haven’t already taken the initiative in our own apologetics/theology education are confronted with arguments by atheists, we don’t always have a ready response (the fault of our own unpreparedness — not in any way a reflection of whether a suitable counterargument exists). So this frustration sort of builds up within us on an individual level, but that’s only one element in this reaction. The other element is the smug, snide attitudes that atheists typically cop when discussing Christianity — it’s maddening. I really hope that’s not how atheists view Christians to be. As Christians, we’re so used to being spat upon, harrassed, put-down, and yes, persecuted, so our minds are kind of trained to expect that treatment in a certain situation, which is why I think people jumped to conclusions about what you (Dan) said in your (the PC Gamer) podcast. We’re sorry if we (the Christians in this discussion) misunderstood — but we took the cue to defend ourselves, whether it was needed or not.
Anyway, Dan and crew, my advice to you is to just be careful in the future about how you treat religion and other personal reverences in your podcasts, otherwise the debate on this issue could spill over into places like this, where it isn’t entirely appropriate.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
So let me get this straight. They can make jokes about the French, Germans, and Canadians and thats okay. But the bible is entirely off limits unless its saying how great it is?
March 4th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
You guys sound like my wrestling-obsessed friend. We were having our usual argument: me saying it sucks, him trying pointlessly to defend it. One time, he said “well if you think wrestling isn’t worth watching because it’s “not real” you shouldn’t watch movies at all either, because they’re just as fake. ”
That’s called reaching too far. It doesn’t matter what scientists do and don’t know. It doesn’t matter whether god experiences time like we do. He’s just a concept that, ironically enough, EVOLVED as a part of human civilization. I know what motivates people. I know how scared we are to be alone. God is the father who will never leave you. Grow up, for christ’s sake.
Oh and for what it’s worth, if you’re going multi-GPU, buy the best single card you can afford, and later when you need more power make the decision whether to pair up with a matching card or just upgrade again to the single fastest one you can afford. IE don’t buy two cards at once.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
Beepee — beg any other good questions lately?
…I’ll let you look over your post and see if you can figure out what I’m referring to.
Time’s up — If you pre-suppose naturalistic evolution, then that’s the ONLY place that belief in God could come from. But we disagree on one of your premises. In case you didn’t notice — we’re not naturalists (philosophically speaking).
March 4th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
oh GOD… so what, pcg staff is restricted from talking about anything other than games in their news section??
March 4th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
“List of topics to avoid in future PC Gamer podcasts:
- porn
- the bible ”
Best post yet!
March 5th, 2007 at 2:06 am
wow… note to self, never mention religion in any public internet forum.
all religious matters aside, good podcast. was good to see some new studies to show that games dont make us aggressive.
now if people would please stop the religious/anti-religious rants that rage all across the internet i’d be happy. I mean what exactly does anyone gain from all this pointless bickering over nothing?
Just that nothing.
Ciao.
and Props to Dan for putting up with all the fuss going on.
March 5th, 2007 at 2:36 am
They arn’t rants Rye they are discussions. Something isn’t a rant just because someone else isn’t interested in it. A rant is a specific way of speaking/writing.
Dan, i don’t think the point was to get in here and try to convince people that God exists. It was to point out that declaring that God definitly doesn’t exist is just as unproven as saying he does exist. This false sense of omniscience that people get just cause we evolved knowledge to the point of beng able tomake TV’s, computers and get to the moon gives people an exaggerated sense of er . . omniscience. I don’t mind people who don’t believe in God but many aetheists hate the idea of people who do. I guess it’s a reaction to over zealous and in the past even tyranical religous types.
I just find it kind of funny when people boldly delcare that God definitly doesnt exist. In my opinion, apart from beliving that God does exist i can understand for sure why someone doesn’t belive he/she does. After all God created an amazingly great self contained system that is the universe and evolution etc. I would have to say though that the circumstantial scientific evidence would point to the existence of God as being more likely than not. Even if the big bang did happen by accident it came from something, eventually all matter came from energy and energy can never be destroyed or go out of existence so that means it has always existed much like God, probably energy is part of Gods very substance.
I think that probably there is no such thing as ‘when did energy/matter come into existence’ because there is no ‘when’. If God created time its self then it’s not a question of where or when did God come from or into being. We are born at some point so we have the mentality of linear time and an instant when we begin. But Just as we see gravity holding us down as the norm when in reality most of the universe is space so floating is actualy the norm and a place of gravity is a specialy created environment then also we see beginning and end and start point of existence as our norm but in Gods state just existing is the norm and there was no start point. In other words God didnt come from anywhwere cause he always existed or to be more acurate outside of time he just exists.
Existence as always having been is just as likel or unlikely as there being a time when nothing, not even god or energy, existing. Both are just as reasonable and totally weird for a scenrio.
Nice segway into games though Dan. Personally i find the spore concept to be boring. Those games are just a bunch of hidden checks and balances to me so i can never get into them.
March 5th, 2007 at 2:55 am
Great podcast…one of the best I’ve heard in a while.
It is indeed incredibly hilarious that any heinous act of misconduct (gun violence, rape, etc.) must be blamed on some manner of art form in this country; music, literature, films and video games…and yes, even a painting or two. It’s always one of the these, it’s never the possiblity that the person was, quite bluntly, fucked in the head.
Moreover, the overwhelming majority of criminals who perpetrate these acts certainly didn’t (and still don’t) require of the aformentioned art forms to set them off. For example, George Hennard didn’t need video games to massacre the patrons of the Luby’s in Killeen, TX…all it took was him having a long line of failed romantic relationships. Follow the same logic as these game critics, should no one ever have a romantic relationship, because they might commit mass murder. I’d be willing to bet that ol’ George never played a game in his life….
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
March 5th, 2007 at 7:52 am
Lol public forums are indeed bad places to discuss things like religion and politics. Funny enough, politics seem to be tolerated in this forum because nobody made a sound when bad things were said about Hilary was a while back ago
To Poita: It is true that scientists freely admit that they don’t know everything yet. But they never claim that they do. Theists on the other hand do claim that. They claim to know exactly what happened at the beginning of the universe and even what will happen at the end. Based on what? On ancient scriptures of which validity cannot be 100% proven. Scientists on the other hand work only with facts and evidence.
I don’t know what you meant exactly when you said ’strong’. But I’ve never heard about the claim you made about scientists having a theory about alternate universes. In any case, even if a scientist will make such a theory, it will always be based on observable facts (otherwise he will not even be called a scientist). Scientists don’t make up theories just for the sake of it, they are always preluded by facts. The difference between this kind of ‘believing’ and the kind that theists do with heaven and hell, is that the first one supported by observable evidence while the second kind on scriptures ONLY. There is no observable prove whatsoever that there is a heaven or hell. So I don’t see any hypocrisy or delusion when a person will choose to ‘believe’ in alternate universes but opposes the idea of heaven and hell.
To MasterZ: You choosing to believe that there is a better world out there doesn’t make it a fact. It’s just an opinion. And the difference between what happened with the Canadian newspaper and this situation is that the bible ISN’T being slandered here. No real negative remarks or opinions were given in the entire podcast as far as I can hear. All I’ve heard were facts (eg bible depicting violence a lot). Is is wrong for people to say you’re overreacting when you take offense in facts?
And in case you are going to have real debates about religion and science again in the future, don’t ever again quote the bible. It doesn’t mean anything in the real world. Like I’ve said, there are no observable facts supporting the theories in the bible. If you want to be taken seriously, stop quoting the bible as your only source of reference in debates.
And Christians should really stop feeling ‘persecuted’ unless they are living in China or something. There is where the REAL persecutions are happening. Like what Dan said: to compare what you are going through with the real stuff that is going on out there is a total insult. Especially if you live in a Christian-dominated country like America. Stop playing the victim card every time you can’t win a debate.
March 5th, 2007 at 7:53 am
Poita I’m more annoyed by people like you and Master Z than by the zealot types. I’m annoyed by people who think that being Christian automatically gives them some moral high ground. Personally I think the most morally developed people are atheists, as they don’t need some omniscient authority figure, or the promise of a heavenly reward to sway them towards good behaviour. In fact they only need a simple rule of thumb that could be said to originate from the bible. That being “do unto others as you would have done unto you.” That’s the only moral lesson you need and the rest is just dogmatic mind control.
This all started when Gary and Dan pointed out that citing videogames as a source of violence made equally as little sense as citing the bible as a source of violence. That was an intelligent, insightful comment. I don’t know what you christians heard, but it was in no way derogatory towards religion or the bible. So then you had to come in here and derail what should be a pleasant discussion of video games with a misguided defense of your superstitions. Look at the length of your comments. These extended straw-man arguments (where you argue a point nobody is contending against) are symptomatic of what has made everyone sick of your religion. You shove it in everyone’s face and go on at length about something nobody could really give a shit about, when nobody insulted you or your religion in the first place.
So that’s why I come in here and make these inflammatory comments, which I do believe 100% personally. If you’re going to piss and moan, I’ll give you something to chew on.
March 5th, 2007 at 8:20 am
…
I get this feeling PCGP should avoid using the word ‘bible’ in coming episodes
March 5th, 2007 at 10:10 am
Lateralus. you are mistaken. Scientists certainly do not base all their theories on facts and evidence. If possible they do that but very many times they create a structured arc of possibilities that when tested with ‘logic’ seems to hold integrity. Many times these hypothersis are totally absent of fact or any experimental date because, for example with sub atomic or super string theory, there is simpl no way to text them in order to glean any facts at all.
These scientists then look at these theorys’ and get a ’sene’ of how true they feel and then in the absense of any better theory they ‘go with it’ and publish. Others then join that camp or reject it. There is a lot of faith based living going on the the scientific world too and there is also a lot of persecution and words like heretic and sacrilidge thrown around.
Dude if you ‘ve never heard of the ‘alternate universe’ theory then you probably arn’t that deep into sciene and therefore arn’t that up on the way science and scientists really work and think.
This notion that scientists operate only based on things that can be 100 percent proven is totally wrong. Even today Evolution (which i believe by the way) can not be varified fully. That’s why they call it the ‘theory of evolution’. We all believe it because of the incredible elegance and logic of its structure rather because of definitive proof. That’s no different from the reason a christian believes that God exists.
Beepee, i’m guessing you are still a teenager based on the freshman like old chestnuts you drag out.
Ohh christians like to believe in some huge god cause they are too weak to live for themselves. Ohhh christians only believe and be good for a reward and fear of going to hell. Gimme a break dude. You can come up with more original critissisms of your own can’t you rather than just re hashing the same old tripe.
So Atheists are better even though, as you said, they base their philosophy on the bible. Do unto others as you’d have them do unto you was actually quite advanced moral thinking in the day of the Romans. Jesus went one further, he said even if others screw you over then forgive them and take care of them. That was so wild an idea they that killed him for the insult of it. In fact advanced morality has shown that to be profound.
You talk about Atheists as if there are a group with a belief. They arn’t, they are just people who don’t believe there is a God. They don’t have some brotherhood of man philosophy of life you know. There are good ones and bad ones just like those who do believe in God.
Dude you talk about mind control but you are the one spouting stuff you have just heard others say and not constructing your own logical argument.
Since when did me or Master suggest we are superior to anyone? We didn’t, your mind is parsing and editing reality so that anyone who even suggests that god exists is automatically transformed into someone who is everything you hate. Try to just go by what we say not what you imagine we think or are like.
I don’t believe in suggesting that God exists because the bible says so and never do. I like to use logic and expect others, especially the proponants of logic, to use it to show why i’m wrong if they disagree with me. Beepee you just dropped logic out the window and went on a bender of slurs and accusation. It’s obvious that you are ruled by your clouded emotions and not clear logical though. I welcome someone who is an atheist based on logic more than soemone who is a theist based on blind belief and believe me dude you aint one of them. You are an illogical hater and it’s real tiresome as there is nothing so refreshing as an intelligently put challenge to ones faith. Your wet attempts at putting ‘believers’ in their place is painfully cliche and unimaginative.
March 5th, 2007 at 10:17 am
Beepee, I will give you that the PCGP comment page is no where near an ideal place to have the discussion that this forum turned into, but I would challenge you to read your post again and try to see the irony I find when I read it. First off, I would ask you to come off your moral high horse from judging my humility in your first post. I WAS an athiest at an earlier time in my life. Was I, by society’s standards, a good person? Indeed. It’s not the presence of God that has somehow ‘tricked’ me into being a moral person, something that I and most other people, Christian or not, fail at every day. No one is claiming to be perfect or above anyone else, especially myself.
I’m not particularly sure what you meant by ‘misguided defense of your ’supersitions'’, but I would guess that you meant the defense was unprovoked. Us stating our opinions about our faith would be no different than someone coming in to discuss how they may have thought the PCG staff’s review or comment on a game or development was wrong. The only difference is that the topic is faith. I don’t particularly like to use the word religion…I can brush my teeth religiously. I have a strong feeling the Christians you have come into contact with are much different than myself and some of the others who have posted in here. What seems like us ’shoving it down your throat’ is no different than any other defense on a topic. But again, because the topic is faith, right out of the gate we’re wrong. I’m not saying you’re a free-thinking, intellectual liberal, but in the circles I walk in and the people I come into contact with, I see a very similar response to any discussion on religion. ‘Reason’ prevails and the intellectual high horse parades around my ‘lowly and sadly wrong beliefs’. If everyone has a right to their own opinion, why is mine so wrong that I have no right to voice it? Or at least discuss it. Maybe comment on a portion of a podcast based on my belifs? No? Well if no one cares, as you state, then why not just ignore it and not stir the flames?? There’s two solutions to a ‘problem’…ignore it until it goes away or face it head-on. Provoking people by taking sucker punches at their personal beliefs only creates a situation where you and many others feel like we are “shoving it down your throat”. I would just ask that before starting a flame war, think about what your comments do to provoke those they are directed at.
To Lateralus, again, this isn’t necessarily the most choice setting for a discussion on the topic at hand. However, I would also ask you to read your post again. You speak of quoting the Bible and scientific theories. First off, a theory has no observable facts that prove its existence. So by that thought, the ‘theory’, as many would see it, of Christ’s death, resurrection, and atonement for our sins would be just as scientifically impossible to prove as the theory of MACRO evolution. You sound fairly educated, so I wouldn’t have to tell you to poke around on any of these topics. Many of the accounts in the Old Testament have been verified through science. Just as evidence of micro ‘evolution’, or adapation, have been. I could go on about quoting the Bible, but I have a feeling you would throw off my remarks without any bit of seriousness. I could talk about how to fully understand the Bible, and to be convicted by its contents you must be filled with the Holy Spirit. That probably sounds arrogant doesn’t it? It’s not. Just my opinion. Just like asserting that I’m wrong, evolution is right, there’s not God, Uwe Boll is an awful director and shouldn’t ever touch a video game movie ever again. Well, maybe that last one can be agreed as fact.
No less, I would ask any of you who have read some of the defenses on this comment page to take a different view of them. Read them with the knowledge that none of us claim to be better than anyone who has posted here. Read them knowing that none of us are televangelists, or people on the street corner holding signs saying “You’re going to burn” or something ridiculous like that. Read them knowing that every one of us posted because we are convicted of what we believe and wanted to share that with a group that rarely hears the vioce of Christian gamers.
March 5th, 2007 at 10:49 am
wow what a block of text, i so feel like reading it lol.
seriously just let it go and talk about something else.
March 5th, 2007 at 11:07 am
Then go ahead and read it.
March 5th, 2007 at 11:17 am
I’m 30. I went to Sunday school. As a kid I read my children’s bible over and over with my great-grandma, who would put the stories in context for me. I don’t claim atheists are a group. Life’s too short to qualify everything you say. What I meant was that atheists who go through life conducting themselves by the maxim “treat others as you would like to be treated” are acting christian despite the fact that they find christianity ludicrous. Reverence for religious authority and subsumption to dogma is unnecessary and corruptive. “turn the other cheek” is a nice idea, but the lesson I took from it is not to put yourself at the mercy of authority, as the system will crush you.
I’m not part of any larger philosophical group. I’m simply one of those people who, upon figuring out that Santa Claus was a myth created to manipulate and control me, saw the parallels to god and jesus and decided right there that it was all bullshit. I don’t really hold anything against you for your beliefs, aside from the afforementioned discounting of your sanity, perception, and motivations.
March 5th, 2007 at 11:31 am
Back on the topic of the podcast, after listening to all 72 episodes I think you guys put a little too much emphasis on metacoverage of the industry. I’d like to hear more in-depth discussion of specific games. You’re putting a lot of coverage on WOW, which I enjoy despite the fact that I don’t even play it or any MMO or RPG for that matter. I’d like to hear the same amount of detail on other games as well, like the bigger FPS series. Maybe you could do some themed episodes dedicated to certain titles or developers and personalities. Say like an iD Software edition, or multiplayer FPS retrospective This would allow you to produce some podcasts in advance without the rushed production schedule required by the more timely news oriented stuff. You could post them in those weeks when producing a new podcast is not possible.
What about throwing in some audio reviews as well? Perhaps done live in group format? Maybe one audio review per podcast?
March 5th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
To Poita: You’re right. I am not that into that particular branch of science. I’ve hardly read any books specifically about theories of alternate universes (cosmology?). But I do understand the scientific method. And the way you described how these scientists work with this theory is totally not according to the scientific method. Nor is namecalling like heretic if someone doesn’t agree with you. It might be the articles that you’ve chosen to read, but in the branch that I am active in (chemistry), I’ve never seen such behavior. And you’re right about scientists not only working with 100% proven facts. That is because you can’t prove with 100% certainty that something doesn’t exist (eg the celestial teapot of Bertrand Russell). When working with something that can’t be proven one way or the other, scientists usually work with probabilities. For example, there is a 99.9% chance that pcgamer will publish another magazine next month. And a <0.01% probability that there is a celestial teapot orbiting the Earth at this moment.
When you put all the evidence together, the probability of an omnipotent God in the skies is very close to null. We can argue about the validity of the evidence in here but it will be pretty infertile. Scientists and creationists having been battling on for ages now and still no one can claim clear victory. But in any case, if you only use the kind of evidence that is taken seriously by the scientific community (not the pseudoscience used by people like John Clayton), then there is almost certainty no God at all.
Also the new C&C3 demo kicks ass
March 5th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
I have purchased my last PC Gamer Mag….I grow tired of your ranting about anyone that doesn’t agree with you… There are lots of people, parents, teachers etc.. that feel that games contribute to violence in kids…..I don’t know and the fact is neither do you…Quoting research is fine but calling everyone that disagrees with you stupid…is, in fact stupid…
You constantly insult Christians, conservatives and anyone that don’t feel porn is a virtue..Have you never felt the need to hear anyone else’s view….Why is everyone on the podcast left wing with really no set of values…let me explain.. You all feel that porn is good, sex in games is good, forsaking family and friends to play WOW is good….You know there are lots of gamers that don’t feel that way, they are NEVER represented in your podcasts…
And then you mention the Bible, well that has already been covered…….
March 5th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
To seadog: You claim that a lot of people feel that games contribute to violence in kids. Can you quote them for it? Did any of these people publish anything that we can read? And are their claims base on any research? If you can, you must quickly call up Hilary Clinton or Leland Yee and get your medal, because you’ve successfully done what they’ve been trying to do for years.
Also from what I’ve heard and read, PCG is not calling the people that disagree with them stupid. They are only saying that videogames being singled out as the sole origin of violence in children is stupid. You’ve taken so many things out of context, it’s just ridiculous. It’s too bad that you won’t buy another PCG, but I think it’s more your lost than theirs.
March 5th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Beepee, you think Santa Clause was created as some kind of conspiracy by society or parents as a method of controlling children? Dude it’s just a cute representation of ‘the spirit’ of kindness and giving. The Easter bunny, tooth fairy and every other made up thing gives a lot of joy to children and stimulates their imagination, and without them their little minds wouln’t be prepared for games like WOW, (ok so there is a downside).
Even if a religion is rediculous in your view then if one of its contributions to humanity is in teaching them principles that encourage them to treat one another more kindly then that’s only good.
There you go again dude. You assumet that cause someone even suggests that there might be a god then they are in the authorotarian, dogmatic camp. Nothing we’ve said here has fit that bill. You are ruled by your emotions as you can’t distinguise from our words that we are in the ‘reasonable and logical’ camp. We have never spouted any dogma here, we have only used reason to suggest that the aethiest view could be illogical and that the theist view does indeed have some logic.
Try to fit your response directly to the tone and content of the person you are adressing rather than lumping them in with the slavishly dogmatic faction of theists you obviously have a problem with. That’s a more reasoned approach dude.
Lateralis. I think you are missing something here. What you described is a ’scientific method of experimentation’. That is not all science that is just one logical method of deductiona nd experimentation. Have you never heard of something called ‘theoretical physics’? There are many such branches and disciplines of science in which experimentation is not possible so the only way to advance knowledge is to craft and build a logical and structurally sound ‘theory’. That theory is then assailed by the best scientific minds in humanity and if it still holds, although still totally untestable and unprovable, then it can be possible for it to be addopted as the ‘accepted theory’ by the scientific community. These theories sometimes become s’cuse the pun, gospel and everyone pretty much believes them to be so even though no test has been conducted. Sometiems they get disproven up to fifty years later and sometimes new techniques come about that can varify them. sometiems they just can never be proven, never the less they are accepted and believed due to their totally logical and reasonable integrety as an explanation ofsomething. That is what christians do with their beliefe in God. No different.
Seadog, steady on old chap.
I seem to remember Gary a few podcasts ago challenging the guys about the social responsibility of game makers and publishers and the possible effects of young kids getting their hands on material of all kinds that is too mature. Quite impressed i was.
In my teens i was a punk and ended up in court five times so i’m no angel. I enjoyed my little imature rail against society and anyone who would try to make me live by their rules. In the end though i grew up and realised that society is just that, society. We all are individuals but have to and choose to live together so need to abide by rules. The eternal debate is what they should be. Generally we can never always agree so we just try to be democratic and let the majority decide. The 49% that lose out to the 51% can either be mature and accept it or cry like babies and act like mopey teens and complain about why they should have to live acording to other peoples rules.
Or course if those rules get too extreme then we need a system of balance, usually the supreme court or something but generally they are not too extreme but the ones who disagree with them piss and moan.
This attitude taht people take where they giggle anytime someone mentions sex or mara ju ana m’kay or anything else that is considered ‘counter culture’ (despite its probably being made, marketed and sold by huge corporations with ‘front’ indy copanies) bothers me cause it’s so shallow, transparent and childish.
It’s almost a mantra for some. ooo if i say the world porn or stirpper or hash etc i can gett a supportive jeer from the peanut gallery. yawn. They are like those people who wear the ‘just got out of bed’ hairstyle that they spent thirty minutes perfecting. Core members of society waitng till something edgy is safe and accepted then touting it as if they are che guevara.
March 5th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
I deeply yearn for the technology that makes invisible any internet discussion of religion. Perhaps this should be my first venture into Firefox addons. Good frickin Lord, it’s almost as exciting as two people arguing why the other’s favorite color should not be their favorite.
Now, off to listen to the hopefully porn free podcast
.
March 5th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
Seadog, if you want to disagree with us, you have our email address. Record an MP3 and send it on over!
March 5th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Seadog, when do they insult Christians. They never insulted Christians in this podcast. All they stated if you actually payed attention was that blaming video games on violence was just as stupid as blaming the bible. Which actually isn’t entirely true seeing all the people who have killed in the name in the bible. (crusades, the gays killed)
March 5th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
I never said whether or not I thought that video games contributed to violence in kids, I said that I don’t know……. I am saying no other views are offered other than the very left wing hosts and they try to reticule anyone who doesn’t believe as they do….talk about passion, almost a religion…..why is politics or religion even part of a video game podcast.
“they are only saying that videogames being singled out as the sole origin of violence in children is stupid”
I agree that there is no way that video games are the sole origin of violence in children, but that someone feels it might contribute is also presented as stupid…
No thanks for the offer to send in a MP3, it could be edited and even if it is not, your hosts have unlimited time to respond to the MP3 (which could not respond back).. Kind like the talk show mute button someone mentioned earlier…..that ALL talk shows hosts use not just Bill Oreilly and Rush….just listen to Air America for 2 minutes and see the mute used…
This is not unique to this Pod cast…..Twit, engadget etc… all fail to present any views from outside of the San Fransisco mindset… There are gamers and techies that live in the red states also.
daffygremlin you post is sort of amusing, you said “They never insulted Christians in this podcast.” When you have you been listening, it underlies many (but not all) of these podcast. And please list the “gays” that were killed because of the teachings of the Bible….The Bible teaches us to love the person but condemn the action of homosexuality. Never does the Bible teach anywhere to kill anyone that doesn’t follow our beliefs. I am sorry you feel that “gays” have been slaughtered by Christians…I don’t know what you are talking about.
And the Crusades??, not enough space for that..
March 5th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
First off i loved the pod-cast, secondly i dont understand how a simple joke has sprung into a huge religion debate. first off we Christains (for i am one of them) dominate the world by a huge majority, so in no way are we supressed, secondly PCG podcast has made tons of jokes and some refering to certian parts of society, and yet you dont see them springing up all hurt and calling PCG racist, or anti-(whatever they believe in), i agree with them when they say the bible is violent, and sexist, you dont see sex being talked about that much in your average high school text book. the worst part of it all was that you guys sprung up all angry before you even listened to it again to make sure you where right, they where commenting that why do video games get blammed and not say another sort of violent media, they just used the bible as a exemple, not as like hey look we should blame the bible next time. also we christians are being picked on by about 2% of the population since we are about the other 90% so next time please dont get offensive before thinking about what was said. and i listened to that part of the podcast twice and their was nothing disrespectful about what they said, they simply made a joke that if their was a earthquake and a guy died reading a bible he would be brought to heaven. they where in no way saying christians suck
also it would be a good idea to not talk that much about christianity cause we seem to be really jumpy about our religion
.
March 5th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
To Seadog: I don’t know about gays, but abortion doctors sure are not safe.
To Mythricor: Big respect to you
March 5th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
Seadog: All they said was the blaming the bible made as much sense as blaming video games.
Also, yes gays in america have been killed by christians, why would i make this up? (god also destroys a city full of gays in the bible)
March 5th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Go Mythricor go.
March 5th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
I bought BF2142 yesterday. I also bought speaker stands for the rears on my Logitech Z5500 speakers, powered by X-fi platinum. This was a bad idea, as I had a ton of work to do, and did none of it. I work for myself and I still goof off. Oh well you only live once. The game’s fun. The hit detection seems better synched to the graphics than in BF2 and BF1942. The graphics seem a bit tighter than vanilla BF2. I’m still a bit confused in Titan mode, but I’m sure I’ll master it very soon. I spent a lot of time just taking in the scenery and trying out all the new stuff.
It’s a good time to be a gamer. For the past year I’ve bought a new PC game every month or so, without a dud yet… Quake 4, Doom 3 expansion, Call of Duty 2, HL2: Episode One, Prey, Defcon, BF Special Forces, Hitman: Blood Money, Call of Juarez, and finally BF2142. The only one I didn’t love was Hitman. It was just a bit too consoled out for me. It also didn’t play nice with Crossfire.
March 5th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
is it just me or was it Jimmy from South Park who called in about Halo 2 and Veesta?
March 5th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Don’t even get me started on the crusades. That was people who used the Roman catholic church as a way to trick people into doing their deeds, by corrupting everyone to make false claims so the citizens would rally behind their cause for world power.
Once again i bring up this point, if someone is offended by something then they are offended. You can’t tell me your not allowed to be offended by that, when it takes a shot at me personally. Even if it was intended to do that, it still can. No one tried to start a religious debate out of this we just simply expressed that if offended us, and wanted to make point of it. This left wing mentality tried to cram down our throats that we are wrong for feeling like that in the first place. Well i am sorry i am not. I listened to the podcast several times before i made my original post, and debated whether i wanted to say some thing or no. I knew everyone would completely over-react and turn this into a huge your religion is false / no its not debate. I have a right to say how i feel, just like pc gamer does. I choose to express this anyways, and i can’t help other people decided to make this as a way to attempt to step on me and my beliefs now.
side note: i can’t help if someone else doesn’t have the courage to stand up and defend themselves if they were offend.
Daffy anyone can make a post and claim Christians killed gays. So your comments hold no weight without proof for starters. Secondly if some does this, its a hate crime. That would be completely wrong to the Christian teachings. If you took 5 minutes to read how Christianity worked, you would write that off as a crazy individual trying desperately to justify his actions. You don’t however! Instead make a bigger mistake by assuming Christians supports people like that, all Christians think the same way those crazy people do, and lump our religion in the category of filled with people who hate rather than love.
I am ending my posts on this matter from here on out. PC gamer said they weren’t trying to offend anyone and didn’t attend to. They did it rather lack-luster, but they still said that in their own way.
Seadog i agree with you. It would be nice to see someone on the opposite side of the political spectrum with the podcast.
March 5th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
I think that these posts have proved my point…..anyone but left wing activist are not welcomed…..
[GR]Lateralus says “I don’t know about gays, but abortion doctors sure are not safe.”, safe for who? the babies the doctors kill, they sure are not safe…..or the 4 doctors that have been killed by loose cannons that are not affiliated with ANY Christian organization. The Christian faith would never support someone who killed Abortion doctors, no matter how we feel about them
and daffy says “Also, yes gays in America have been killed by Christians, why would i make this up? (God also destroys a city full of gays in the bible”
I agree Daffy why would you make that up, but you did….List any instances where anyone representing the Christian faith killed a “gay” person…..I waiting…..oh you can’t…Because it is just something people assume. And it is funny you mentioned “God also destroys a city full of gays in the Bible”….you are correct He did destroy two cities, but we Christians are not GOD and we cannot/should not speak for the wrath of GOD…….That is GOD’s business, not what he told us to do…..
I agree with Masterz that this is going nowhere fast and this post will end my comments on this issue, I didn’t want a fight I only wanted to point out that this podcast seems to me to be very bias/lopsided and if it chooses to leave games and venture into social/political issues then they should try to get someone from the other side of the issues they cover instead of stacking the deck with 3 people that always agree.
…….come join me in blowing up Battleships in “Battlestaions Midway” (my current selection) instead of blowing up each other in a silly blog…
I wish you all well and many happy video gaming hours.
March 5th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Internet… Serious Business.
That’s all I can seem to find to say on this matter.
March 5th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Seadog:
www.skeptictank.org/ghtbt13.htm
thats one story of a gay being killed for being gay by christian, ill find more later
March 5th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
jeremy or dan;
can you guys lock this thread down? its just going to be more bickering with nothing about PC gaming…
March 5th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
http://www.pridesource.com/article.shtml?article=23681
http://uk.gay.com/headlines/8787
http://www.hatecrime.org/index.html (a bunch here)
http://www.godhatesfredphelps.com/hatecrimes.html (big list)
just type in, gay killed for being gay or anything of that sort and you’ll find many other stories
I remember there was one semi-famous murder about 2 or 3 years in texas when a man found two guys having sex and killed them.
March 5th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
“Seadog:
www.skeptictank.org/ghtbt13.htm
thats one story of a gay being killed for being gay by christian, ill find more later”
um hmm, i guess someone didn’t read their story before they posted it. thank you for proving my point. Wow please read something before you post it and claim it factual evidenc
March 5th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
I said I wasn’t go to post anymore but Daffy has gone on a Anti-Christian rage……
First story is from “skeptictank”, how appropriate!….that is right where it is from….The article had the work “Christian” added by the skeptictank not the original source… and the spiptictank specializes in how reglion hurts society….and reports on..get this…”testable claims of the paranormal from aliens in flying saucers to vague, ill-defined conspiracies”….good source.ha.
and the second from a “gay pride” site……
I am not belittling the violence against these people, it was horrible and I hope the people who did it are convicted and punished…but don’t blame Christians for everything that happens to “gay” person…..There have already been hundreds or murders in America already this year where “gay” was not an issue……as I said before…find any true story about a person “representing the Christian faith killed a “gay” person” not stories from joke sites….. Christian groups do not support this violence…..
I agree with Rye Punk…please shut this thread down…..
March 5th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Seadog: My mom and most of my family is christian. And i realize that not all the murder where by christians or even were they killed because they were. Gay, but are you going to tell me that atleast some of the murders listed here http://www.godhatesfredphelps.com/hatecrimes.html (only two years of murders btw) weren’t caused by christians who hated gays
Finally im not blaming this on the bible. Merely the way ppl choose to preach and interpret it.
March 5th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
I done, I hope that Daffy can get over your hate for Christians, Christ loves you….
As I said violence against anyone, “gay” or not is bad….I am not saying that people that claim to be Christians have not killed “gay”, and fat, and black, and short, and white etc..etc..etc… I said the Christian faith doesn’t endorse this….neither does the Bible… sure they is “gay” hate sites from people that claim to be Christian that doesn’t mean they follow the Teachings of Christ……..
Post whatever you wish I am done, I will not post on this subject anymore…
Geez…this is video game site…….
March 5th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Dude, are you retarded, most of my friends and family are christians yet i hardly hate them.
Just because you insult something doesnt mean you hate it. You can insult black culture but not hate blacks (OMFG!!!!)
March 5th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
Ok first off, what happened to turn the other cheek, it seems like one of Christs most importent teachings yet we seem to ignore it the most, and also i gotta say LETS END THE RELIGION DEBATE, and end it now, neither side will give up and nothing you say will convince any one here to change your mind, you are intitled to your own opinion, and so is the other guy on this board. as Christians i think you should show the people on this board against you that you are the better men/women, and can leave this fight and go on to video game topics. so any one who posts after this about religion go find a religion war (cant spell religues) or go start a cruasade, you will have a better time with that then convincing any one on this site to change their mind.
thanks
Any way any of you guys seen huxley, if so what do you think about it.
March 5th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
How to get 100 posts in the comments by monday: reference the bible in some way.
But really, nothing offensive was said on this podcast. Mention the bible and all the 13 year old religious righties in training get uppity. Keep doing what you’re doing DJ (no I will not call you Dan, Dan = morris) and Gary. We come here to download your opinions on games and other subjects, and it’s free. If you disagree, feel free to stop downloading. In fact, tell your parents to get PC Gamer podcast shut down next time they’re at a Jack Thompson fund raiser dinner, k?
March 5th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
ahum bwelkk wanna read my post
stop trying to start arguments guys.
March 5th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
“How to get 100 posts in the comments by monday: reference the bible in some way.
But really, nothing offensive was said on this podcast. Mention the bible and all the 13 year old religious righties in training get uppity. Keep doing what you’re doing DJ (no I will not call you Dan, Dan = morris) and Gary. We come here to download your opinions on games and other subjects, and it’s free. If you disagree, feel free to stop downloading. In fact, tell your parents to get PC Gamer podcast shut down next time they’re at a Jack Thompson fund raiser dinner, k?”
You’re an arrogant and ignorant troll. Enjoy your stay.
March 5th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
“Beepee, you think Santa Clause was created as some kind of conspiracy by society or parents as a method of controlling children? Dude it’s just a cute representation of ‘the spirit’ of kindness and giving.”
Coca Cola is the creator of the santa claus everyone knows.
March 5th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
“Beepee, you think Santa Clause was created as some kind of conspiracy by society or parents as a method of controlling children? Dude it’s just a cute representation of ‘the spirit’ of kindness and giving.”
No, that’s Jesus. Santa was created by Coca Cola, like the poster above me mentioned.
March 5th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
New MMO. “Dateline: To Catch a Predator”.
http://img144.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-29556/loc36/54386_PCMMO_ToCatchaPredator_122_36lo.jpg
March 5th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
I just read that Valve put Ads in CS 1.6
Is this true? I just a ton of respect for Valve. Steam is enough of an advertising platform as it is, now they start doing this?
March 6th, 2007 at 5:20 am
Santa Clause wasn’t ‘created’ by coca cola, he was ‘poppularised’ and also a unified image was established. That’s not the same as being created. St Nick was actually a real person who went about giving gifts at Christmas time and the Santa Clause mythe was built around him just as the King Arther myth was probably built around a minor king in one of the devided lands of old England.
, you think what happens in the USA is the be all and end all of everything. I knew one American who thought Walt Disney ‘created’ the story of snow white. Also one who thought Ice Cream and Pizza was invented in the USA.
Created-poppularised . . . . not the same meaning.
Christmas trees in the home was a German thang and brought over to the UK by Queen victorias German hubby Prince Albert. They later took off in the USA not much more than a hundred years ago.
Damn Americans
Just kidding, i love America, lived there for ten years.
People let’s seperate the messege from the messenger. I agree with you that many christians throughout history and today are dicks and many people have had an awful time at the hands of them. But that doesnt mean you have be be dicks in return. Also, not everyone who supports the spirit and messege of Christianity is a dick.
March 6th, 2007 at 7:27 am
Too bad lol. I was hoping we can get to 200 comments
March 6th, 2007 at 9:07 am
Pretty heavy discussions here, can’t wait to catch up on the listening and see what I’ve missed!
March 6th, 2007 at 10:14 am
Basically they made a very good point that games can’t be blamed for violence in society any more than the violent scenes in the Bible can. Then all hell broke lose.
March 6th, 2007 at 10:29 am
New MMO. “Dateline: To Catch a Predator”.
http://img144.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc36&image=54386_PCMMO_ToCatchaPredator_122_36lo.jpg
(Had to repost, the above link was bad)
March 6th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
and of course, there are ad links above the dateline game, ironically, there porn ads? (ex. watch me get naked… hmmm)
March 6th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
ROFL @ LINK. Much better than the rest of the crap going back and forth here.
March 6th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Um I been a subscriber to pcgamer for the majority of 10 years. I love the podcasts and they are funny and insightful. I get most of what you say and find it useful. What I dont get is how some people above me can take things you say out of context. I know everyone is entitled their opinion but not when the opinion is formed on the wrong main idea of a topic. The refrences that were related to the bible were true and i know you wernt knocking the bible. The book of mormon is different then the bible. It is supposedly a “lost chapter”(comment made to one of the bloggers). The violence in video games I believe is a very good outlet and stress reliever for real life problems and situations therefore helping to elminate violence theoretically. There are usually some folks who love to take things seriously and act things out on T.v or the internet. Its like when I was younger how kids would kick each other and do “karate” pretending they were power rangers. Anyways im new to the blogs and if something entices my inclination to type then I will do so. Keep up the great podcasts and your all hilarious and I look forward to listening to all the podcasts before february 2007 to keep up.
March 7th, 2007 at 9:49 am
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say people are entitled to their opinion but then qualify it by saying . . ‘except those who are wrong’. Being wrong is aright also and bieng right isn’t a condition of free speech.
I don’t think people suggested that some accusation was made against the bible or Christians in this case. It’s not only the factual and legalistic things that are said but also the spirit in which they are said and even also if the spirit of what is said is only mildly demeaning then if it’s comes off a sustained and continuous assault then all those things are factors in how people react.
I personally don’t mind people attacking Christianity, the belief in God and the validaty of the bible even though I consider my self to be a serious Christian (although one who dislikes the church sectish mentality). I think even a faith and the notion of God him/herself should be able to stand up to a logical standard and should, if real, be able to withstand questioning.
If however i think somone is just sluring those who believe in God and trying to paint them as nuts (even though many are just as many atheists are) and using derogetory language rather than resoned critisisms then i’ll step into the fray and defend the faith so to speak.
March 7th, 2007 at 10:39 am
Poita, look how much time and energy you waste in your life over your imaginary friend. Do you even like computer games?
March 7th, 2007 at 8:04 pm
CSS > CS1.6
March 7th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
beepee, my dear little troll, you can stfu now, because you’re getting owned. Just thought you needed to know that.
March 7th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
He isnt getting owned he is just acting like a dick.
March 8th, 2007 at 12:13 am
heres my 2 cents (hahaha im hilarious) anyway, i think we should focus on umm, pc gaming? this is the pc gamer podcast not the battle of the religions with achmed porbunderwala and rabbi greenberg.
March 8th, 2007 at 12:36 am
*Computer explodes from religious text walls*
March 8th, 2007 at 1:31 am
I really like the intro music on the PCGP Episodes. Where is that music from???
March 8th, 2007 at 1:38 am
And now for something PC Gaming related…..
http://www.gwn.com/news/story.php/id/11566/GamePros_Supreme_Commander_Review_Score.html
March 8th, 2007 at 10:56 am
Beeper,
when i pray regularly my daily happiness is much deeper and when i don’t it’s less. So even if it’s imaginary then the effect is real.
The guys are right, you got pwned, when you give up making a logical counter argumetn and just insult then it’s a sign of defeat.
I used to really like one of the transition music effects on the pcg cast but they don’t use it anymore. It was a really moody one. I’d like to hear it if the admin can source the sounds for us.
March 8th, 2007 at 11:31 am
Next time why don’t you pray for a life and some common sense?
I didn’t get owned. I came off as a dick, which is okay so long as you come off as the life-wasting, pugnacious, delusional, self-aggrandizing “child of god” which you are.
There is no logical argument to make with you. I didn’t merely insult you and I didn’t get owned. Here is yet another example of you seeing “evidence” where there is none.
You’re just another scared human who finds it easier to shut down your critical thinking and effectively suck your thumb while you believe in fairy tales. You even admit that despite the fact it may or may not be true, belief in god encourages people to be “better to each other” and that’s a good enough reason to perpetuate the myths. That is actually EVIL thinking but then again the worst evil is always done in the name of god.
Take it back to what started this in the first place. Gary\Dan’s comment about the bible. It was not insulting, disrespectful, or warranting of any further discussion at all. It was merely taken out of context by hypersensitive christians, something which people like me take great offense to. Here we are thousands of words later, no further along. Do you feel better? I don’t, but I will fight your type of evil bullshit wherever it rears its ugly head.
And finally a comment of yours from the last podcast:
“I think sometimes the guys on the PCG podcast take themselves a bit too seriously. Lighten up a bit.”
Pot…. Kettle..
March 8th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Lol so beepee since i am guessing you only belive in yourself, and are probably a big bang supporting (not saying i am not) how did the first Atom get their to explode and cause the rest of the planets. as you know proved BY SCIENCE, nothing can come from nothing, it couldn’t have been nothing then a atom popped up and decided to explode. while you are entitiled to your views and i might be wrong and you might be right, please stop just insulting people who believe that when we die we dont just blink out of existance and that we actully have a perpose on this world exept to work and die.
oh ya and if you try to get me on the fact, “well how did god get here then” we dont know, no one does, thats why its called faith
. [/enddebate]
March 8th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Hey, I would LOVE to believe in god. I think it would be comforting.
The big bang theory states that the first atoms didn’t form until about a minute after the big bang. We’ll probably never know where the matter that constituted the singularity that preceded the big bang came from. In my opinion, nothing has to “come from” anywhere. I think that’s a reflection of the binary wiring of human beings: our cognition has evolved to sort things into binary pairs: day\night, good\bad, friend\foe, etc.. so your need for some explanation for the origin of material existence is a reflection of your innate need to create a binary opposite to our current state of “existence.” Your brain is wired to assume there must have been a “non-existence” prior to this current state. It’s possible all this matter has just always been here.
I’m not even going to mention the obvious question which is begged by creationist theory, which Poita already took the time to pre-empt anyways.
Evolve.
Yes I realize the big bang is just a theory, but it is a theory built on scientific observation and critical peer review, as opposed to your theory which is based entirely on faith. I’m actually quite skeptical about the big bang. The only thing I’m certain about with regards to the origin of the universe is that it was not created by some sentient being. That is, unless we are all part of a simulation running on the computers of some incredibly advanced civilization. Given the current pace of growth in computing technology, it is actually statistically far more likely that we are all artificial sentients who exist only in a computer simulated historical reconstruction, not unlike the Matrix, either as a historical project in the future of our own civilization or as some sort of alien archeological installation, than we are to be physically “real”, unique entities. After all, there will be an infinite amount of computing power and storage space, allowing for an infinite number of simulations, whereas there can only be one “reality.” The odds are against us being part of the true reality. The computing power available in just a hundred years will be able to create software AI that believes it is concious, tangible, and possessed of free will. So, my mind is open to this and many other possibilities you may not even be aware of.
Sorry to derail the discussion, but I just detest the constant incursion of religious self-righteousness into my life.
For my money, the original Populous was the most fun I ever had playing god.
March 8th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
lol, i would continue the debate, but it would be pointless and waste this boards space, my only thing i will say here is more scientists believe in god then in the big bang, its just commenly thought otherwise. (actual study btw) and while the matrix idea would be cool it would be highly unlikely and it still leaves us with the fact as how the orignal guys got here. also i love the to catch a predator thing would be a wierd MMO though
March 8th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
ES TEA EFF YOU.
March 8th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
I think beepee’s main problem with us, is in my case anyway, its impossible to take him seriously. I mean look at him. Look at his arguments intertwined with third grade level insults. Someone either is having that time of the month, or is really acting retarded.
March 8th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
Whoa. Long religious debate!
My words: Live and let die. Or live. Er whatever. Does it really matter whether your next door neighbor is a Muslim/Christian/Buddhist/Atheist/don’tcareist? The only thing that matters is are they a jerk who keeps playing Queen as loud as possible at 1:00 in the morning. Whether they’re going to hell or heaven or are going to get reincarnated as a mollusk or a mouse…it doesn’t matter. Why?
Because it’s not going to effect YOU getting to wherever you’re going after this life. What WILL effect you, however, is if you can’t get a good night’s sleep because “We Will Rock You” is shaking your windows out of their panes every night.
And, onto things that are slightly more important than religion, life, the universe and everything: MY GPG NET isn’t working! ARGH! I can’t play Supreme Commander with my buddies! Why now! WHY NOW!
March 8th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Supreme Commander sucks.
March 8th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
I unfortunately have to agree. I didn’t enjoy the game at all.
March 8th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
Well I happen to dissagree with both of ya. Its big, explody…what more can one want?
March 8th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
super tactical and awesome like COH?
March 8th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Yeah, but bigger and with less steller voice acting and explosions. I’ve found that Sup Com, C and C 3 and COH have created a perfect RTS triangle.
SupCom for STRATIGIC ACTION!
COH for TACTICAL ACTION!
CC3 for FAST ACTION!
If you have all three, your RTS diet is complete and nutritious.
March 8th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
now Blizzard has to create Starcraft 2 to bind them all and rule them all
March 8th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Ummmmmm no, there shall be no ruling of the C&C by the StarCrap, not happening.
March 8th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
face it, most people favored SC over C&C crap :p C&C evolves way to slow to rule over their competitors.
Ep 73 anyone?
March 8th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
not another war..
did anybody see the gdc interviews of Crytek and their Cryengine2 level editor?
as a 3d modeler, im frikkin impressed
March 8th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
at least it would be a war over gaming this time…
I prefered Starcraft just because it involved more than massing tanks…
it involved the ling rush… and it had custom maps… prolonging its playtime to near infinity.
how about the gamepro Australia SupCom review?
a 5/10 and it turns out they were bribed… by EA…. i wouldn’t put it past EA…
But i’ve gotta say between SupCom, C&C3, and CoH there is definitely a Strategy game out there that you can find to enjoy.
Company of Heroes is mine. I love the WWII action, and the emphasis on tactics over all else.
March 8th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Did you finish reading the article? it turns out the story where EA bribed GamePro was a lie. And you can do more than just mass tanks in C&C games, it’s just all the 12 year olds ever do because it’s the easiest tactic to pull off if you can get it out early enough.
March 9th, 2007 at 12:33 am
@Mythricor: Word.
As for this podcast, funny, entertaining, enlightening… and dare I say it… sexy?
March 9th, 2007 at 3:12 am
Erm…. is there a new podcast? Can’t see one..
Back to WoW I guess.
March 9th, 2007 at 4:39 am
Someone tell me why my Supreme Commander disc has ‘NTSC’ on it….
March 9th, 2007 at 5:18 am
Where’s the new podcast
March 9th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Beeper you show your imaturity by accusing people of being scared etc. That implies that you are braver than others which is an elitest and macho mentality. There is nothing wrong with being scared of anything. It’s how you conduct yourself despite being scared that matters. Again a total lack of logic with you, if someone is scared then obviously they are making wrong choices. There’s many a scared person who kept their head and made the right choice in all walks of life and there are many a fool who while proud of their bravery chose wrongly. This is not an absolute caue and effect scenario.
There are millions of religios people who made brave choices because of their religion and spent their entire lives serving others. Not because they wanted some reward but because through their religion they had learned to love otheres and especially those in need to did for the here and now satisfaction of helping them. They could have turned away and sometimes wanted to but chose to be brave and endure a life of difficulty in order to help others. You see only ugliness in religous people because thats the filter you are looking through, the fault is not in the religios people deer beeper but in you.
If you arn’t scared of dying then you have some biological defect because it’s a fundamental part of our nature not to want to die. So to say someone is scared is to tell them them that they are functioning correctly and to say you are not scared is that you are disfuntional or you haven’t come close to or imagined death well enough.
Oooo it’s all a natural cycle and we should accept death after we have had our time on earth. yeah, say that when the time is closer.
If we are indeed created by God and have imortal souls then it would be totally natural or us not to like the idea of ceasing to exist.
We get hungry, there is food. We get tired, there is a capacity for sleep. We need love, there are potential partners for relationships. We have a logical mind, there are logical scientific facts for us to find. The list goes on. We have a desire to have a relationsip with a creator, there is a creator. You can toss your silly macho insults around all you like but the majority of the people in the world and throught human history have had a deep desire for God. It’s inate, part of us just like huger for food is. There is at least a chance that that yearning exists because there is indeed a God and we are designed to have a relationship with him.
See, what a write here is at least logically sound even if it’s a ‘theory’ that is not accepted by some so stick to reality dude. I don’t deal in delusional i deal in sound facts or at least credible theory. Challenge it with intelligence dude, grow up.
Oh, and you can’t have it both ways. We can’t be simpering thumb suckers and self agrandising at the same time. You lack focus dude. You start off talking about us specifically but you slip into extremely gerneralisations about your perception of religious people. Focus dude, focus.
oh and oh, Stalins Russia finished of 70 million people in the space of a few decades. Mao’s China killed about 60 million in the cultural revolutio. Cambodia, a small country killed 3 million, a smaller number but as a percentaget it was a huge one third of it’s entire population. Hitler was as anti christian as you are dude, his part was called the ’socialist’ party for a reason. They hated religion. er, 50 million died in WW2.
So let’s drop the patheticly cliche’d crap about how religions kill more people. Sure, they’ve done their fair share but in the las century the nations that did away with religion killed more people than any other faction of society and they did it with ubelievable gusto, enthusiasm and eficiency. The so called ‘none religious’ states of the last century displayed an almost orgasmic level of buchery.
Damn boy you get your anti religious cliche’s right out of a comic book.
March 9th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
@matt_housch Sexy? nah. Not enough Christen.
March 9th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
“Company of Heroes is mine. I love the WWII action, and the emphasis on tactics over all else.”
I really liked COH too, but WWII is getting sooooo BORING! What they needed to do was base it off the Harry Turtledove series, “Derlavani War”. Basically there’s this country that was defeated a long time ago, and were forced to sign this treaty that made them take the blame for most of the war, pay damages AND not get a large army. Then this really charismatic leader takes control of the country and rebuilds its army and attacks everyone else with this frightening new tactic of steamrolling over the enemy with fast Behemoths (think rhinos but with armor and catapults) supported by Dragons (who drop magical bombs), and the entire world gets plunged into this HUGE world war, and there’s magic and armies and lots of dragons and resistance fighters and everything!
Wait a second…that sounds vaguely familer for some reason…
March 9th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Poita, you are the simplistic one. You lack reading comprehension just like you lack a clear perception of the reality around you. I never said I wasn’t scared. I said you were another scared human effectively sucking her thumb for comfort. My logical brain does not allow me to suck the thumb that is religion. I’m terrified of dying.
I realize I’m being a troll and this comment will most likely be removed by the moderators, but I really think YOU Poita are a moron. I question most religoius people’s judgement, until they demonstrate sound judgement. You are one of the dumb ones who I write off as a complete shitwit. You’re a fatuous child with a good vocabulary and tenous reasoning skills.
March 9th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
After re-reading your post, you have completely shut me down with your deep and nuanced insight into history. I rescind my comments and endorse your logic as supreme.
I promise this is my last post on the subject. PCG guys post a new show already. Oh and my first subscription issue came yesterday. Pretty sweet!
March 9th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
This is ridiculous. Stop with the goddamn religious debate, everyone. Do you realize by flaming each other for their beliefs, you’re making your own beliefs look that much worse to everyone else?
Another thing, if you’re going to flame each other, do it somewhere in private. This comment board is meant for COMMENTS on the podcast, not DEBATING about religion. Asshats…
EDIT: Oops, looks like I was a bit late. Whatever.
March 9th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
And now we know why GFW didn’t review Left Behind.
Seriously though, we need new podcast, STAT!
March 9th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Well strong words indeed beep, but er . . . . . . no ‘acutal’ point was made. Nor have you yet to offer any kind of counter arguement to any of the reasonable points i’ve made.
All you do is insult. I mean, if i was just typing dogmatic diatribe then i would’nt blame you as you can’t really argue with that crap but all i’ve done is make none dogmatic, reasoned and mostly bible quote free points. You don’t address any of them though, you just insult.
I don’t even mind insults so much as they usually come from passion and passion is a good thing but only when it’s reigned in enough for focus to come about. You don’t focus though dude you just belch out all the bile you have inside.
Your total lack of reason and focus is dissapointing frankly.
March 9th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
We don’t deserve a podcast this week.
March 9th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
I cry :_(
March 11th, 2007 at 6:32 am
Concerning “video game inspired violence” & the newsbite on an uptick in teen “thrill-killings” of homeless people:
Don’t misunderstand: stuff like that is no joke, and ONE sick incidence of such a crime is one too many.
But…as mentioned in the ‘cast, the story quoted one confessed perp. who noted that the whole thing “seemed like a video game.”
Words like that slot neatly into our fear-based media’s story line. Less convenient is another participant’s admission from the same article: that beating his victim felt–and here I quote directly–”just like teeing off.”
Does this herald a new wave of anti-golf stories? Should we expect TV pundits, politicians and self-appointed, self-obsessed moral guardians to turn their sights against this vile, violent, youth-corrupting game?
I won’t hold my breath.
March 12th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
seriously, guys, is it just me or was it Jimmy from South Park who called in about Halo 2 and Veesta? i’m pretty sure it was.
March 13th, 2007 at 7:46 am
Jason, You will respect my a-thor-i-TY!!