PCGP Episode 84: Back From Korea
This week: Dan survives the Korean Starcraft unveiling and returns to tell about it; Huge WoW content patch released; CMP announces PC GameOn, a public PC games-specific event; Gary potentially moderating a panel at Hollywood and Games summit; Half-Life 2 Black Box canceled; q&a and playlists!
May 24th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
First! Good to have you back on Thursday night!
May 24th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
Hell, it’s about time!
May 25th, 2007 at 2:55 am
@fifpro HA, I see what you did thar! xD
May 25th, 2007 at 7:32 am
Hey Jeremy… I subscribe to another podcast from world of warcast that breaks up the podcast into what I guess is a list of “tracks”, eg “intro”, “mages”, “mod of the cast”, “news”, etc. So you can sort of see where you are in the podcast, and you can pop back to a section if you want to. Is that something you could do with this podcast? Or is it too much hassle?
May 25th, 2007 at 11:15 am
ughhhh wouldnt that mean we would have to download like 5 sections of the podcast?
i’d rather just have 1 file and then troll through it.
Great podcast though.
As far as RTS basic strategy goes, find a build order that works for you. Figure out how many workers you need running to the resource space, figure out the time delays between resources, figure out how to scout while you work on your economy. I’ve found that once you understand what you want to get to in the game, then its just a matter of rushing there, and practicing and getting used to it. Well unless you’re playing Warcraft 3 in which case you have to also master micro-ing if you want to win battles.
I used to be pretty good at a zealot rush back in the day, but if that failed all i could do was turtle and hope for carriers to safe the day. ( they didnt unless the other guy also turtled.)
Also Scouting your enemy is perhaps the most important skill to get, you cant attack the enemy if you dont know where he is. 3v3 bgh, SCV rush. rawr.
And perhaps the best game to get you used to the idea of Offense as a defense is Company of Heroes, if you dont expand, you dont get resources, you pretty much have to go all out offense if you want a chance.
May 25th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
No no no… don’t discuss barbeque until you come to NC and have some, Lexington-style.
May 25th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
No, you don’t have to download multiple files. You just download one file, one podcast, but it has a sort of “table of contents” that shows you where you are in the cast, how long each segment is, etc. It’s not a “must have” but once you see it in action it’s kinda nice. Check out the world of warcast podcasts for an example (http://worldofwarcast.com/).
May 25th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Murdocj, looks like they’re putting out their podcast in AAC format (which allows that sort of section labeling), which is great for iPod owners but blows for everyone else. I think we’ll be sticking to MP3.
May 25th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Hokay… thanks for checking it out.
May 25th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
murdocj: Yeah, you can do cool stuff with AAC, like chapters and graphics, but like DJ said it’s not nearly as universal as MP3. We could publish multiple formats, but that complicates a number of things (especially my life). Thanks for the suggestion though.
May 25th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
When talking about “What do you feel when killing in a game”. I really doubt most people say “Hey just another point”. Oh sure maybe when your online, but even then your thinking “Oh yeah shot your ***! Stay down!”. We always think “violent” no matter what we do. If anyone used what we say against us when we play games we could say that we say the same things when we play or even watch sports (which I don’t). How many times have you seen someone watch football (barf) and 10 guys tackle a guy and your friend on the couch stands up and screams the same thing you do at your game…”OH YEAH! Got his ***! Stay down!”.
When I play games, in single player anyways and I kill someone I think what I would think if I was if I were there. Like in Hitman, when I kill my target if he says something like “Please I have a wife” I say to the tv non the less, “Their loss” and plant a bullet in his head. Is that aggressive? Yeah. But I love being the game, you play games because you want to get inside the worlds, be part of everything, get sucked into it all! Isn’t that the point! If someone doesn’t at think or say something when they are playing a game that is somewhat out there then your not really enjoying the game!
Anyways when I say something I laugh afterwards. I am having fun. Its the ones that don’t laugh and get to much of a thrill off of it that you wonder about.
May 25th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
Assassin X: I may not be most people, but in my experience it is about scoring points, at least in so much as high scores or frag counts are the effect of mastering a play mechanic. That’s probably the core — a sense of masting controls and interactivity. That’s where I get my thrill. When I come out on top of the charts at the end of a match, I know I’m better at the game, not that I killed more people. When I frag someone at a crucial moment, it’s like winning a good ping-pong rally; a battle of wits and skill with nothing to do with violence. I have to assume most professional gamers feel this way too.
On the other hand, Hitman has a lot more suspense and isn’t the twitch “master the controls” style game I’m thinking of. So maybe the enjoyment from playing a game like that is different, I don’t know. I never loved that series, possibly for this reason.
Football is another thing entirely, with real physical violence and injuries. There is almost zero physicality involved with playing video games. I know part of our fun is the twisted fantasy of engaging in egregious acts of physical violence, but again, in my case what keeps me playing is the thrill of mastering a mechanic (i.e. being good).
May 26th, 2007 at 7:42 am
@Dan S, so according to your logic, Koreans are the hottest and smartest people on the planet? Yah I know, you were joking (I assume/hope).
@Assassin X, I completely agree with Jeremy, in fact, I think you yourself feel exactly the same way I do when I make a frag :p. I don’t feel murderous or any bloodlust at all after scoring a kill, like Jeremy said, it’s just another point. And I like points, a lot. We all like some recognition if we’re good at what we do, and if you value your gamer score of course you’re naturally inclined to feel good if you’re one step closer to winning the game. Hitman’s just the same, it gives you the stat thing at the end of each mission, describing how leet or reckless you were. Jeremy said it all when he said (something like the following) “When you win a game of chess, you didn’t really kill the queen, it just symbolizes your victory.”
May 26th, 2007 at 7:56 am
@Assassin X, I just realized, what you were describing is more of a singleplayer element (not multiplayer), namely someone begs you for his life and you know you shouldn’t kill him, yet you also know you can and noone can stop you. So you do it, just to see what happens. It’s just curiosity. In mutiplayer there is no time for curiosity, there is no “let’s see what happens if I…”, there’s only the competition of winning the game. The emotions in mp are more like what Jeremy and I described above.
May 26th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Hey Guys
Just signed up for an account, great podcast. I know this has nothing to do with starcraft 2 being announced, but this has been bothering me for awhile which should I pick up to play Dungeon Siege 2 or Neverwinter Nights 2? and who would you rather see direct dungeon siege 2
Thanks
If I want to send a letter to PC Gamer what’s the address ?
thanks
May 26th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
I didn’t mean Dungeon Siege 2 sorry I mean the Dungeon Siege the Movie
thanks
May 26th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
great podcast
really enjoyed the question of rts’s’ and indie games
May 26th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Neo,
pick up neverwinter nights 2 if you like baldur’s Gate more than Diablo.
If you like Diablo more, then pick up Dungeon Siege. Neverwinter Nights 2 is longer and harder; Especially if you play it with official D&D rules.
And dungeon Seige shouldnt even be getting a movie. I’m happy enough with the game.
And yes Assasin X is comparing apples and oranges, In a multi-player environment its all about whos the best at playing the game. Its a skill competition.
In singleplayer games its all about immersion and entering a different world, assuming a ‘role’ if you will. The singleplayer will also have a certain skill level but you are mostly competing against a static opponent… although some people i meet online are quite static too.
May 27th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Thanks alot RyePunk
Hey Jeremy
Is it possible that you can get a guest that is a scriptwriter, I want to get into the video games industry by writing good plots. It would be nice to here from someone who has been doing it for a long time.
Thanks
May 27th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Neo, it just so happens that our very own Gary Whitta is a scriptwriter of both movies and games. Send him a question!
May 27th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Yeah send in an audio question and we’ll be sure to play it when Gaz is on the show.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:12 am
How come you still invite people to send in written as well as mp3 questions when you never actually read out any written questions?
About enjoying violence in games. The truth is that the male brain has evolved to actually reward us chemically when we kill even in real life. Civilisation is a recent thing and the male human brain was evolved primarily to ecxel in hunting and war/tribe defense. Killing may be a gruesome thing but if it had to be done then it had to be done and the brain ensures that it is done better if the creature is stimulated to do so rather than doing so with abhorrent distaste. For this reason we should be honest and admit that ‘naturally’ men on some level feel pleasure and excitement at the idea of killing and violence.
Most of us can control it and put it into proportion and perspective and our empathy over rules the urge to slaughter but the part that feels pleasure is slaughter is not an un natural thing. In the modern world we develope sports and now games that enable us to acess those pleasure centers.
Women as a rule (and whether feminists like it or not it is science) have brains that chemically reward them more for the succesful ‘gatherer’ role than the ‘hunter’ role. That’s why they get a buzz from shopping and also verbal communication that men don’t get as much. Some women play shooters but on the whole, even here in Korea where girls play games a lot in pc bangs, they play less visceral games.
When people see guys playing games where they are killing other players what they don’t actually realise that the player is getting almost as much pleasure, maybe more so from the sense of being in danger of being killed. The sucessful pwning of another player is as much about the chemical reward that our brain gives us for sucessfully ensuring our own safety (albeit by killing an enemy) as it is about the singular act of having killed another player.
Whatever their objections about our enjoyment of peer adversarial gameplay, they at least can not say the urge and enjoyment of it is un natural.
It will take at least one hundred thousand years of peaceful human existence for us to evolve out of this mindset so they have a long wait until we lose interest in violent games.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:14 am
By the way. My locat isp went out of biz here in Korea and my new one is better. I did a dl test on the nvidia site which usually has a fast upload speed and i got a rate of almost ten megs per second. Should be fast enough for them to get some good Starcraft 2 games in next year.
May 28th, 2007 at 1:25 am
omg jeremy i love you you are my best friend i love you give me a fucking break all you virgins that think your on first name basis with these people need to get a life and go and get laid i bet most of you are over 18 and still live with your mothers and wait all week long just so you can log onto here and be the first one like that huge fag areacode. get off your fat asses go get a real job and go get laid.
May 28th, 2007 at 2:58 am
the way i see it, you’re more of a lowlife for spending your time bitching about other people’s behavior on forums and comments. go get driven over
oh and forgot to mention, great podcast.
May 28th, 2007 at 7:43 am
Neo - if you are interested in scriptwriting, you might want to check out the “Battlestar Galactica” podcasts by the producer, Ronald D. Moore. He goes through each show and comments on each scene, and talks a lot about the decisions that were made as to how to arrange the story, the subplots, what worked and what didn’t. He talks a lot about how scripts evolve and often about how script ideas that seemed good to begin with ended up being weak.
Podcasts are at http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/season03/
May 28th, 2007 at 9:59 am
@ youhavenolife
What do you want us to call him?! Mr Williams! I don’t think so. Also, just because we listen and comment on this podcast, it doesn’t mean we have no life. You sir, are a fool and should stop wasting your time here and continue whatever ‘life’ you have. or do you just spend your week waiting for a new podcast to be posted so you can try and bring us down with your shit?
May 28th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
guys, dont respond to flame baiting e-trolls. They are only made stronger by acknowledging them.
I however will be the first to admit that according to the vast “majority of society” i have no “life”. Because in their views i dont. I cant change their opinions. And in my opinion they are wasting their lives on things just as insignificant. The only person whose opinion should matter should be our own.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
@RyePunk Hear hear.
You forgot to mention you got off your soapbox
May 28th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
So I was thinking about SC:Ghost…you know what they should have done? They should have made it like Prince of Persia. Cause Ghosts are like…nimble…and…assassainy.
But those Koreans…good for them! They’re good at something, and they are happy. Hurra for them!
Too bad they coulden’t have thrown their attention to something more fruitfull than a vidio game. Like, artistry or something.
May 28th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Well they (South Korea) still have amazing National Sports Teams… so i dont think their obsession with gaming is hurting them at all… and why would it?
and yes, i’m not one to enjoy the spotlight, so i always quickly jump off soapboxes…
May 29th, 2007 at 11:05 am
Good question!
May 29th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
I just submitted my first ever question, hope I’m not too late for this weeks show
.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:07 am
isit me or has gaming got a little slow these past 2 months…. havnt seen anything which catches my interest in months of april/may/june(yet) it just seems that in dec/jan must have games were being chruned out so many at a time..now its gone a bit slow..
May 30th, 2007 at 3:22 am
@onslaught Huh? Starcraft 2 just announced, Diablo 3 might be announced next blizzcon, Crysis is coming out, Fallout 3 trailer is out in a few days, Unreal Tournament 3 is surprisingly getting shipped before the end of this year, there’s the ubidays that went on a couple of weeks ago (along with all of their cool games - Assassin’s Creed, Haze, …), thingy, erm, Hellgate London development is coming to an end (by most of the Blizzards Diablo team)…
Enough to look out for imo
May 30th, 2007 at 9:19 am
Ok one thing what is the big deal with star craft 2 it does look that great when watching the gameplay video it looked BOOORRRINGGG, i saw nothing special about it i doesnt seem to bring anything new to the table.
This whole game violonce thing:
personal at the moment i dont think its a huge problem at THE MOMENT because when playing a game you can tell you are playing a game. BUT when graphics become more real (photo/film realistic) and controls become more ‘wii’ like, in the sense that your not just using a mouse and keyboard or game pad but you are physicaly comtrolling what the player does then theres a problem.
Becasue the lines between the virtual world and the real word become more blurred.
May 30th, 2007 at 10:12 am
For the person with the question about getting better at RTS games, I have one word: hotkeys. Learn them all. Love them all. In the time it takes for you to select a unit, bring up a menu, select the option you want, etc. the person who uses hotkeys is already on to their next task.
I use this all the time when playing the Total War games. There are hotkeys for everything from switching formations, switching Fire at Will toggles, etc. Use these and you will find you aren’t scrambling for time as much as you used to.
May 30th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Bleh, i dont like the RTS alone in Total War; Dont get me wrong, but its the Turn Based Campaign AND the RTS that make Total War, either of those elements by themselves and it’s a little weak. I just Mass up peasants, let them get slaughtered, then Battle of Cannae it up with better troops encircling, and then Cavalary thundering in their back sides;
unless they keep their Cavalry back, then i just use my Cavalry to keep their Cavalry out of my Main armies sides…
Although that’s the main thing in Total War, the RTS is incredibly more dependant on using sound strategy than actually using hotkeys. Being fast in Total War is much less important than being fast in C&C or Starcraft. What with the whole Strategy is pretty much all the matters. Well, unless they send 100,000 guys at you all you have is a bunch of archers… strategy wont help you much there.
yea, play Total War games if you want some serious Strategy in your Strategy games… none of this mass rush gameplay in them. However the campaigns do take weeks to finish… but it’s damn rewarding when you take a king hostage and then Ransom him back for thousands of Gold… damn… i should boot up Medieval 2 again…
Okay. so i lied, i adore the real-time parts of Total War, but for the exact opposite reasons of why it was mentioned. It’s not twitch based RTS gameplay…
May 31st, 2007 at 10:15 pm
awesome
June 13th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Sweet, a game conference in Austin, I may have to check that out. That isn’t TOO far from Houston… only several hours. I’m sure the wife will be all for it.