PCGP Episode #201: Horse Flogging
Since last week was so fantastic we lumped the MW2 and L4d2 release discussions into this week on the show. Norman Chan is also on today’s program and he has been playing MW2’s multiplayer with Evan quite a bit - to see if the pros outweigh the cons press play now.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
First post
That said, thanks for the podcast, even if it was a bit late
November 20th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
How dare you introduce Norman Chan without the title he so painstakingly earned?! He may have gone to a neighboring kingdom, but here he shall forever be known as Norm the intern…
OK I really need to take a break from Dragon Age.
November 21st, 2009 at 8:10 am
It’s only 2 days who cares? I’m sure you can wait 2 days to play the shitty MW2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQh7SoBiP_Y
FAIL!
November 21st, 2009 at 4:14 pm
I reckon I’m halfway through Dragon Age now. I’m amazed I managed to do that while studying.
Anyway, our family is thinking about getting broadband, and I was wondering how much bandwidth would it use to play online games. Here in NZ a 10GB data cap will set you back NZ$50 a month so would that be enough to occasionally play TF2 and stuff?
November 21st, 2009 at 6:38 pm
It really all depends on the game, dowzen. Some games take a lot of bandwidth, others do not. Older games especially are optimized for slower connections and so don’t use as much bandwidth.
In general games don’t send/receive much data, so I wouldn’t worry about a cap, you can, however monitor your usage and see how it goes. Most routers have a setting to watch your bandwidth usage, turn that on, play half an hour of TF2, then check where you’re at.
this also depends on what else you’re doing online. Watching streaming video or listening to streaming audio will take chunks out of your cap, but not a huge amount. but if you’re a torrent user, lay off, as torrents wil eat your bandwidth easily
November 21st, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Great podcast like always guys!! It was nice to hear Norm again.
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:15 am
As to the state of PC gaming that Dan mentioned, there are rumblings over at Neogaf and other inside forums from people at Nvidia that they aren’t doing so well. Apparently they’ve cut back on several internal projects. I’d assume AMD/ATI is in the same boat, as far as the mid to high end is concerned. Giantbomb’s podcast Bombcast mentioned this as well this past week. With a lack of titles that require most people to upgrade, this makes sense. You can run an 8 series or 3xxx series GPU with pretty decent settings on all games.
Question is, what’s the next killer game to upgrade for? I can’t think of one that’s coming out that won’t run great on current hardware. Project Offset was the only thing I could think of, but that’s years away, if not just an Intel benchmark for all we know. It’s kind of nice in a way not having to upgrade, but I’d much rather have bleeding edge games to look forward to rather than multiplat titles that only look better in higher res. Seems like the days of the next Farcry, Doom, and Crysis are all but over.
November 22nd, 2009 at 8:15 am
I think a game like Dragon Age will do much for the revival of PC gaming.
As for ATi and Nvidia, yes they aren’t doing too well in the dedicated graphics solution market, but that doesn’t mean they are going down. ATi has lots of Arab oil investment money behind it, and isn’t going away anywhere soon. Plus, it is making money off of the console market, as it powers the Xbox 360.
Nvidia is really struggling with its new GPU, even though that thing should be a real monster when released.
While ATi is doing well with its 5xxx cards, Nvidia believe it or not, is still selling the GTX2xx cards very well… even though it hasn’t dropped prices.
Both ATi and Nvidia are moving away from the gaming only graphics card market though. They are both looking to broaden the scope of their cards. Nvidia has recently started working on ultrapowerful chips that will cater to those in the research business.
At some point Nvidia plan to release cards that will work as both processors and CPUs.
So they might have things tougher than before, but they will survive. It does mean that you are less likely to see games that break your PC though.
Hell, my 8800GTX still chomps through any game I throw at it on my 24′’ monitor.
So while you may not see a whole lot of innovation in the next few PC gaming years in terms of graphics, you will see PC games that instead excel in other areas like gameplay.
I personally doubt we will see an advancement in tech. till the new consoles arrive. But the graphics whore within hopes I am wrong.
November 22nd, 2009 at 11:05 am
At some point you just can’t make graphics better as well, effects will hit a peak sooner or later. This might not happen soon, but most games being released right now look extremely nice, even on the MMO front where games have in general always lacked in graphic beauty because of the load they take on a processor rather than a GPU. Like the above posters an 8800 can still chomp through most games at decent settings.
What I would personally really like to see is an increase in portable graphics. More and more people are getting laptops rather than desktops. It seems like the only people who get a desktop are those who either need one for the extra power and performance for their work, or people who need something like that for gaming. I would love to see a new generation of laptops with high performance setups. I know this would require a better cooling system and method, however, but think of what it could mean for PC gamers! you could carry your “monster rig” anywhere you wanted really, so long as you brought a power cable with you, as the current batterry life of most 6 or 9 cell laptop batteries isn’t very great while playing games. LAN parties would be much easier as well. I know you can get some decent setups from Dell (8gb RAM, 4ghz dual core processor, 1GB GPU) but laptops have, in general, worse performance compared to a desktop of the same spec, either that or there’s something horribly wrong with my little Dell here.
November 22nd, 2009 at 2:14 pm
I don’t reckon graphics are gonna peak for a very long time. I mean CGI in movies hasn’t peaked yet and that doesn’t have to be rendered in real time. I can understand where the point of view that they’re almost peaking comes from (Crysis at full graphics and at high res looks very close) but even that game takes a lot of shortcuts. That peak won’t be reached until games are perfectly rendering every detail and factor of reality and that’s gonna take decades. Also, even when they reach that a) someone still has to make the videocards and b) make them more efficient.
November 22nd, 2009 at 4:27 pm
I dont think Ive ever heard a bigger Valve/Steam fanboy/apologist than Evan. Can he ever criticize them? I totally agree with Dan that it was a big slap in the face to the Steam users who had to wait 2 days to play the game they thought they could play on the 10th. I know Steam never said the 10th was absolute, but everyone seems to have had the same impression. I mean when he was asked what his opinion was he couldnt have changed the subject faster. Come on Evan, be a little more objective.
November 22nd, 2009 at 4:58 pm
The release date isn’t anything to do with Valve though is it? I assumed that was activision because they have total control of everything related to their games.
November 22nd, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Dowzen is correct, it’s the publisher that controls when the game comes out in various countries and through various outlets. Gamestop ran crying to activision about it, like they always do (they also break a lot of street dates) so Activision tried to appease them because they knew that if they didn’t do something about it Gamestop would break street dates and since Steam wouldn’t have been ready for activations customers would have complained.
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:37 pm
I thought of an amendment to the above statement, though the edit period has passed. this is that the publisher can control more exactly than a distributor can. A distributor can completely drop a game, developer, or publisher if they so choose. They cannot, however choose what the publisher requests, they can go against that (like game stop has in breaking street dates previously) Nor can they change the release date that the publisher sets for that distribution platform. If the guys at Steam made a big deal of it with Activision they might have been able to convince them to change the release via steam, they may have done this and Activision refused, as Game stop does have a valid point.
November 23rd, 2009 at 6:27 am
What really seems inexcusable is Valve taking pre-orders, knowing that the preorders would be delivered later than simply going into a store. If Valve had simply agreed to the deal and not taken preorders, then people could just buy the game when they wanted to and probably no one would care. If you really really wanted the game and Steam wasn’t carrying it, you’d just go to another store, the same as you do whenever a store is out of a product you want. Taking preorders just seems incredibly cynical.
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:51 am
From the RPS guys, this is a great read about “that level” that sums it up really well:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/11/19/wot-i-think-about-that-level/
I had no idea what the measurement of the mouse speed you lot were talking about particularly in games. But generally i set the ingame mouse speed slider to a little more than the default. So something like 30-40% full. I do play sniper sometimes in games but have never thought about accuracy vs speed. Just always put it on something I’ve felt comfortable with. Found that conversation very interesting - good question that man!
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:47 pm
@ murdocj, yeah, but I doubt it was Valve taking pre-orders. The way I understand it when a company puts a game on steam they have total control and valve just gets a cut of the sale. Anyway, the steam release date was on the page.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Many may have been surprised or find it “ridiculous” that people would buy Demigod (or any other mainly multi-player game) and only play the single player portion but I wasn’t. I applaud Stardock’s decision to increase focus on the single player portion of future games.
I seem to recall a survey a few years ago that reported that majority of gamers don’t play online. Maybe that has changed if you factor online console play, I don’t know. Many of us who are older than 24 only have a limited time to game and don’t want to endure the steep learning curve and the punishing social scourging of online denizens. I don’t want to spend a miserable session trying to get competent at a game all the while being called “n00b” and hearing “gay” and “homo” and being griefed by jaded players whose only enjoyment in game is in being an ass.
So yes, both of my sisters game and they feel the same and since we all work and have families we can rarely be online at the same time and have different tastes and skills in games. I enjoyed Left 4 Dead and I will get Left 4 Dead 2 I am sure that I will enjoy it without ever having to deal with fanatics, wannabe pro gamers and the sophomoric humor that seems to be endemic in online gaming.
November 23rd, 2009 at 7:40 pm
I think it’s great that Stardock is increasing focus on singleplayer, but I do think it is kinda weird that a large majority of the people who bought demigod don’t play it online. I would expect people who can’t play games like this online would buy another game.
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:14 pm
@MWRuger
I’m sitting here trying to think of some witty, articulate way help you reinforce that point. Unfortunately I cannot so I will just say I agree with that completely. I know there have been a number of surveys about this and even consoles. Something like half of all XBox 360’s have never even been online at all. I’m fairly sure we will get called out for sources so I will see what I can find.
As for the wannabe pro gamer/we have to win at any cost assholes there’s pretty much nothing I won’t do to avoid them. They seem to forget that this is supposed to be fun. Now it’s win win win, no matter what. Whatever glitch, cheat, or weakness that can be exploited then that’s fine as long as our team wins. It’s ridiculous, game breaking, and it needs to stop. I guess it’s been forgotten somewhere along the way that for the most part, it’s the more “mature” crowd that has the disposable income the video game industry so desperately needs
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-10396932-235.html
Yes I know this is from October and the new releases that are coming out will bump those numbers up. But with Pandemic’s death, the imminent layoff of the C&C team, and other tragic events recently; the industry needs us now more than ever. If the current trend toward multiplayer first continues I will be taking my income elsewhere.
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:17 pm
The truth of the matter on the immaturity in multiplayer is that once it started becoming easier and more popular to play games online the maturity and intelligence went downhill fast. Since more younger people wanted better multiplayer systems (in the old days online multiplayer sucked) and they made a huge noise about it that’s been the focus. Now that more and more gamers are becoming older the amount of mature gamers is increasing. At some point most “eletist” players hit a wall where it just isn’t fun to be a prick online anymore. Since that base of players who ARE eletist pricks is increasing as well as the other side and mature gamers tend to not make as much noise the result is what we’re seeing. An over-focus on multiplayer that breeds these immature players that the majority of the player base hates.
I propose we mature gamers start making some more noise about these issues. Maybe we should have some new games where the online multiplayer component is so complicated that these immature people will just move onto the next simple shooter haha
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:07 pm
In response to why they didn’t make “No Russian” a cutscene. Some of this was touched upon the RPS article, even tho it read more like a rant.
If you haven’t noticed by now, IW follows the time-honored Valve tradition of telling the narrative in the 1st person. As in, the main story (however off the wall it may be) always follows you, the player. Even the gameplay is in parts irrevocably tied to your perspective, as in the “shellshock” effect to convey a personal sense of shock and confusoin, and the “strawberry jam splash” effect to convey, well, you getting shot and blood squirting everywhere.
Yes, all of this is done for dramatic effect, but what is most important here is that IW has ALWAYS learned from the way Valve first pioneered, and let the player experience be absolutely focused on the 1st person narrative. I think this, above any else reasons, was why the designers made the bold decision to not make this “mission” a cutscene. That, and probably to stir up more controversy so they’ll sell even more copies.
November 24th, 2009 at 3:06 am
@Backdraft11
Not to mention the plot twist at the end would have lost all impact if it was a cutscene. I personally let out a WTF! when it happened LOL
November 24th, 2009 at 10:24 am
Ir would nice to think that our voices matter in this but mature games are just a tiny segment of the overall game market, even if they are a larger portion of the PC pie. Gaming is primarily directed at the youth market (at least currently) and makeup of the industry reflects this.
I would hazard a guess that about 90% of the people employed in the industry are under 40, maybe even younger. (Is there anyone on the PC Gamer staff over 30). Their experiences and tastes are influenced by that just as mine are. I have been playing games on a computer since 1981 (think Apple ][) and so my perspective is different. For example, the current issue takes a look at Dark Forces 2 and basically concludes that’s it dated and painful to play. Not to me. I played when it first came out and it still seems about the same. Pretty darn cool. Why? Because I was an adult when I first played it not a teen who has nostalgic memories of being a teen playing the game coloring my memory.
When people complain about dated graphics I just think about Space Eggs or Cannonball Blitz for the Apple and smile. Yes, I have fond memories of those 8-bit games with 8 color graphics and 2 voice sound piped through a speaker that a transistor radio would shun but I suspect I would feel about the same as the PC Gamer staff did about Dark Forces.
As far as online play goes, I play a few MMORPGs and one of the most important things I like for in deciding to play is whether I can solo for a significant amount of the time because the jerks are there just like in the shooters. (I don’t play but I suspect WoW is the worse) For me, PC Gaming is about the single player experience. For multiplayer gaming, I’ll go out bowling with my friends or roleplay or bust out the PS3 and play Rockband or Marvel Ultimate Alliance.
November 24th, 2009 at 11:20 am
NCsoft just released a shiny new trailer for an upcoming upgrade to Aion, knowing them though it won’t be here for another two years
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PAM0wr7cZ8)
NC has said it’s actual gameplay though, so we might be able to get it sooner than we think.
November 24th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
The elitism in WoW is one of the reasons I quit a long time ago. That and being forced to spam “LFG” for hours on end because I couldn’t play every waking hour so my equipment was “up to par”. That and the kill 100 of this to get 10 of that for someone got old fast. But that’s a whole other subject…
If Dark Forces 2 was too dated and painful to play then what about using 2 lines to hit a block back and forth? I spent many a night playing that with friends and had a lot of fun doing it. I remember gameplay and fun being more important than pretty graphics on our bazillion inch screen but I guess those days are gone.
If you’re looking for a great single player experience you can’t go wrong with Torchlight. Great game, simple yet deep gameplay. I forgot to thank PC Gamer for putting that one on my radar, Would have totally missed it.
November 25th, 2009 at 1:21 am
I think you guys are dedicating way too much time to the comments section, and not enough to Dragon Age. The game really ‘effin rocks…
It is just amazing in every way, and keep impressing with its scope.
If any of you want to add me on the Bioware RPG network thing, my user name is Pugnate.
edit:
Hey where is Chuck Osborn? Has he moved on to Max PC? It would be great to have him guest on a future show.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:59 am
Torchlight is very good indeed and I am enjoying it. I saw it on Steam but it was the podcast that convinced me to try it. A very good call on that one.
Dragon age will have to wait until after Christmas because:
1) Much christmasy stuff to do. Homade jams, salsa cookies and the like.
2) Someone is getting it as a gift for me.
I do expect to love it, from the review I read.I have a buddy who is a console guy and he thinks it’s freakin’ awesome. (Of course I had to rub in the fact that the PC actually gets a better experience. I don’t think I can post what he said or suggested I do with my PC)
November 25th, 2009 at 8:10 am
BTW, don’t think that just because I love some of the older games and don’t have a hankering for online play that I don’t love all the new games. I mainly play FPS and RPGs but I’ll try anything that might be good old or new. (although I confess that any old FPS that doesn’t support mouse look is a no go.)
November 25th, 2009 at 11:39 am
sorry Pug, Dragon Age will have to wait, I already have enough money sinks right now as it is and since the latest issue with the gift giving guide I want the Wiz that Logan chose… I still have roms for most of my sega genesis, NES, and GBA collections. Having those classics all in one place on the go is pretty awesome. Besides, steam might have a good Christmas/after Christmas sale. I seem to remember lamenting buying a game in november of last year because it went 75% off a week later.
November 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
@ Ride, No no, get it now. I’d be willing to pay double what it’s worth, so full price seems like a bargain.
Currently I’m just alternating DAO and psychonauts. I’ve discovered that the latter is a much deeper more serious game when you explore it a bit more.
@ Pugnate, making you my friend now…
November 25th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Dowzen you don’t seem to understand; I need to slow down on my spending, and sales are a good thing, besides my phone is slowly dying and I know it needs replacing. Besides I have enough to keep me occupied as it is, I’m going through Titan Quest and Torchlight (yeah I still haven’t beaten it) I haven’t even messed around with Left 4 Dead 2 much yet. Let me get through stuff I’ve gotten but haven’t gotten through first, then I’ll THINK about Dragon Age. Titan Quest has been sitting on my hard drive for months, unplayed. I had L4D 2 on preorder and I still haven’t done the entire campaign, let alone a scavenger match. I’m also only in the ruins beneath the necropolis in Torchlight. once I’m done with all of that dragon age and modern warfare 2 (just for the single player).
if Valve releases a new class update for TF2 my plans will be slowed down even more.
November 25th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Mother of God, the Steam deals today are crazy. Fifty bucks for the ENTIRE LucasArts collection. I own about five of those games already, but this deal is extremely tempting.
November 25th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Though I’m not a huge fan of Steam me thinks the Black Friday deals may be too good to pass up.
I too awaiting for Dragon Age. It looks pretty deep and very fun. It will be the perfect cure to the “shooter burnout” I’m likely to have by the new year.
Oh and a Happy Thanksgiving to the PC Gamer staff and all of you here
November 25th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/11/25/steams-thq-game-pack-get-400-worth-of-games-for-50-bucks/
November 25th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
I should eat my hat, Dragon Age is 25% off on steam right now
November 27th, 2009 at 12:08 am
No new podcast? is it being changed to Friday?
November 27th, 2009 at 1:06 am
Today is Thanksgiving in the US, I’m sure that the PCG crew had better places to be than in their offices producing a podcast for us.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:08 am
Oh, right.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:14 am
Yeah, I bet they’re all in turkey comas… I wouldn’t be suprised if they just left it to next week, and I wouldn’t blame them
November 27th, 2009 at 7:49 am
Damn you amurrcans and your holidays!
Oh… and happy givings of thanks to y’all!
November 29th, 2009 at 5:30 am
Re No Russian level, I completely agree with Mr Gillen over at RPS. Alas.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
hey im looking for a bargain bin game give a suggestion nothing turn taking or side scrolling.